Remember a few weeks ago when we were Oscar the Grouchy Vet according to the VA? Of course, the VA apologized for that slight, but the National Journal reports that the VA still has that perception of the people they’re sworn to service;
Veterans Affairs officials want to change when veterans can view some of their medical records online, fearing that some could become violent if they see negative comments and think their disability claims will be denied.
[…]
A group of department officials said Monday that they fear some veterans could see the notes from the exam, assume from this partial picture that their claim is being denied, and take out their anger on local VA officials. They voiced their safety concerns Monday to members of the department’s Advisory Committee on Disability Compensation at their meeting this week in Washington.
“He walks past the [compensation-and-pension] clinic, and he’s very angry. Goes into the C-and-P clinic, and we have an incident of some kind,” said Gerald Cross, the chief officer in the Veterans Health Administration’s office of disability and medical assessment. “Some of our C-and-P clinics are quite small, … and it doesn’t have much in the way of reasonable defense. We’re very concerned about that.”
[…]
“I hate to say this, but what is the ethical justification of removing the C-and-P exams from the Blue Button?” asked Michael Simberkoff, executive chief of staff at the VA’s NY Harbor Healthcare System.
But department officials tied the move to one factor: Potential risk to VA staffers. In addition to changing when a veteran can see part of his or her file online, they are also considering adding extra security to the clinics, such as requiring a code to unlock doors.
So, we’ve graduated from Oscar the Grouchy Vet to the Tasmanian Devil Vet.
The reasonable solution, of course, would be to give veterans the amount of respect that we deserve instead of being treated like vicious animals. Maybe they could be more trustworthy to veterans. They could stop giving benefits to those phonies with wild-ass tales of derring-do and start serving the rest of us who are only trying to get enough to get by.
Instead they bow to the corrupted popular culture and perpetuate the myth of the crazed vet.
Thanks to SSG E for the link.
I was put on a “Zero Tolerance” list. I have to register at every VA facility in the country. Why?
Because last year, when the government shutdown was going on, and the government was barricading the national monuments, I told a nurse at the Vets Home where I was living that I wished that I could go there and blow those barricades up.
A couple days later I got sent to the VA Hospital psych ward for evaluation. They took the threat seriously. A Secret Service agent even came to talk to me!
There was no way I was going to go to Washington and blow anything up. Even the VA doctors said I was not a danger to myself or anyone else. But their secret little Violence Prevention Group decided that I was a dangerous desperado, and put me on this list. I had no opportunity to defend myself, or speak to the situation. They didn’t take anything into consideration other than my original statement (which was actually misquoted in the record). So, I’m one of the “crazed” Veterans.
I don’t register with the Police when I go in anymore. So far I have been able to get away with it.
@Mark Lauer:
Awhile back, some folk here were hollering for an increase in authority and power for the “mental health” numpties.
I was shaking my head and saying “you fucking idiots” to myself on it.
The “mental health” profession already has far too much power and capability to utterly and completely destroy a citizen and that citizen has no real recourse or protection once “mental health” decides to sink their claws into him/her.
And yeah, there are some good folk in that “profession”. But far far far far too many numpties get drawn to that field and abuse the hell out of it for their own shits and giggles.
Absolutely agree. The entire health industry, including mental health, needs to be stripped of a great deal of it’s power. That starts with the legislatures who passed laws requiring that certain things be reported to authorities.
But returning to the VA mental health crew, I saw first hand what they can do to destroy someone’s life, and the fellows I ride with in the DAV Van all said the same thing: There’s no frikkin’ way in hell any of us will ever be honest with a VA mental health doctor, counselor, whatever.
All of us will just smile and say how great our lives are, how everything is filled with rainbows and bubble-up, etc.
If you say anything else, you risk being involuntarily remanded to the psych ward for evaluation and forced medication. Once that’s in your records, you can give u ever having a normal life again.
So yea. Eff the counselors and psychiatrists. I’d rather self-medicate than ever be put through what I saw a friend go through, all because he said he was in a dark place in his life.
These people wouldn’t know crazy if it walked in and spit in their faces.
And if they are THAT afraid of veterans, they should not be working at the VA. Period.
Over reacting big time…
On the other side of that coin though is that Veteran who does get violent, confrontational… and if you think this doesn’t happen, you have not spent much time around VA Hospitals. There are numerous cases of Providers and other Staff being assaulted by patients. As a Veteran and a VA Employee there is no justification for getting in anyones face. Especially some poor GS 5 sitting behind the desk, who has as no power to effect changes to your situation(even if they are a rude ass bitch, which does happen). Yet it happens here at least once a week, sometimes more. I hear that the Code called a lot.
Yes, people are way over reacting there. Hiding anything from the patient is rediculous and unethical. I have read things in my Comp and Pen report that were innacurate and or conclusions I did not agree with, but I am not going to become unhinged over it. There those I know who will though, but you still cannot restrict a veteran from having access to information that so greatly impacts their life.
Same stuff happens at civvie hospitals, with drug addicts, pissed off family members, and the like. Don’t see much difference…
I am sure it is not any different. Whoever is coming up with this hair brained idea though, needs to take a valium or two… or maybe find another job somewhere.
Just read about a shooting in a Houston hospital today. Two dead. Not sure if I remember hearing about any VA hospital shootings lately.
They have happened. Several of them. Should see some of the weapons confiscated by VA police…guns, knives, swords, hatchets, bats, hammers, etc…All from veterans coming into the VA for care. We had a frequent flyer who was a boxer, and had a hair trigger temper. Beat the crap out of another patient and injured several staff. Not all veterans are crazy, but the ones who are…you don’t want to be on the wrong end of one of their tirades.
We are talking folks with bipolar, borderline personality disorder, detoxing drug addicts and alcoholics, etc… they can be unpredictable, violent, and dangerous.
Again, not all veterans are ticking time bombs but they do exist.
paper this morning said the Houston guy was 58 and they think hit on the much younger female, was rejected, then shot her, then himself.
Well, there are plenty of politicians who go to jail for abusing their position, stealing and lying. So, all politicians should be labeled liars cheaters and thieves. Plus, they should all have to walk around in government facilities with a label stating that same fact.
Oh wait, we won’t do that because they are supposed to be treated with respect and dignity. Even though many of them do all those things and worse with no recourse….
Its not to say there aren’t vets with issues, but again this is another “group punishment” response indicating we are all like that and all should be watched.
I’m 6’3″ 285, I try to keep a smile on my face as I walk thru the VA, otherwise I get scary looks from the 5’2″ 120 pound guards they have working there. Well, some are 5’2″ 220 pounds, but I digress.
At the end of the day, if “we” profile Muslims that state extremist things and commit violence, we are considered racists (even though Muslim is not a race). So if that’s the case, should we call those that implement these measures and state them to be Vetists?
As nurse I worked in a lot of Nursing homes and can tell you that no VA is any where near as dangerous as your neighborhood nursing home and rehabilitation center.
The things I have seen drove me nuts. You can’t win against it either….
Jonn…You beat me to my point. “They could stop giving benefits to those phonies with wild-ass tales of derring-do and start serving the rest of us who are only trying to get enough to get by.” Here-Here!!!
Sparks,
Really? I agree there are allot of phonies, but many of us are not. Until you have served and sacrificed you would not get it. I was wounded after leading a mission in Afghanistan and spent 17 months in a treatment facility. I was medically retired at the age of 28 last year as a Captain in the Army. There is nothing phonie about waking up every night terrified, puking during the day from anxiety, crying randomly from mental breakdowns, hallucinations at night, and the list goes on. I busted my ass and bled to earn those benefits. So the “crazies” they are talking about like myself have a right to be mad. Don’t make it out that all of us are a bunch of losers who could not make it. Many including myself have multiple degrees, are very intelligent, and can function at a high level. We just have allot of physiological symptoms that make it hard to even function on a daily basis. Why should you get anything, because you are just “getting by”? I went through years of hard fucking training in the military, six years of college, multiple combat tours. What the fuck makes you think you deserve what I am getting? You need to stop being ignorant. People like you are the true issue and I am referring to ignorant ones. It is what your ignorance facilitates that causes many of the civil instabilities we have in our society today.
Vincent, I’ll refrain from firing both barrels at you because you appear to be new here. First, this is a milblog. I think somewhere around 98% of the folks who post here are either active duty or veterans. Many, if not most, of them have deployed at the very least one time to a combat zone. Some have multiple deployments under their belts. Many are also disabled veterans, having been disabled while deployed. So you aren’t a special little snowflake around here and should quit acting like one.
Next, Sparks comment was pointed directly at a quote from the post by Jonn. He didn’t make anything up, he was simply agreeing with the point. It’s a point you seemed to have missed by a mile, BTW. If you had bothered actually reading the post by Jonn and had familiarized yourself with this site, then you’d know that the folks here go after those who lie about their service. You know, the phonies, fakes and frauds who never served who steal from people like us, the veterans who served honorably. There are many like that who forge documents or simply tell huge lies to the VA and get benefits that should be going to real veterans with real issues.
Lastly, to repeat what Hondo wrote, get off your God damned high horse, Troop. You aren’t special, no more special than any other veteran here.
ArmyATC,
If I misunderstood his intent then I am sorry. I came across the story about the VA and I extremely jaded after spending 17 months getting treatment after I was wounded. I have seen enough for myself and my brothers who have been treated like shit by the VA and the system. Enough to the point that I fire from the hip sometimes. However, my point still holds true. I do not think I am special, but guys like us are in a different situation then a guy who just gets discharged and goes to a handful of appointments at the VA. We are both getting screwed most of the time, but the bottom line is me and my friends spent almost two years stuck in an institution being probed every day like lab rats, that showed they could give a rats ass about you after you get wounded. That is a tough pill to swallow after I willing took my team into a place that I knew I was going to see more contact and lose my life. Then after almost losing my life getting subjected by these ignorant fools? There is a huge disconnect and integration problem for guys like us. If you ever been personally wounded or in combat then had to live with the severe symptoms that come with that and the ignorant fools at in the system, you would agree that there is a huge difference in perspective from a combat veteran to a non-combat veteran. This does not make me better, just there is a big gap in perception and I tend to be much more hyper sensitive to bullshit. BTW my friend, you better watch your damn mouth talking about “point both barrels and fire” at me. Big talk over the internet and I find it comical that a person who is quick to be so self-righteous and defend someone will turn around and make assumptions on another. Even in comedy talking about firing any weapon system at me puts me into the red and I highly advise you to back the hell up. You can’t kill a person who could care less about life half the time to begin with. Furthermore any man who would dare to make such a statement to a unknown variable to which he can’t even make a accurate tactical assessment of is either a fool or longing for death. I don’t think you long for death, but after that comment be my guest. I am sorry I made an honest mistake in my analysis. I deal as many combat veterans here with real and severe physiological symptoms on a daily basis. I am extremely quick to fire from the hip like I said and I am hurt more than anything. I really was just venting to my frustration of the crappy treatment to people who truly sacrificed. I saw the price of my blood/sweat/tears and my buddies for what? NOTHING! There is not ideological cause worth firing for anymore; the campaigns we fought for were to facilitate some idiot in a suits agenda. Nothing more, nothing less. How does it feel to know you were bought? Now after you almost die and you are broke, you are forced to crawl to them in submission to beg for every penny you get? Pathetic.
Sparks,
Really? I agree there are allot of phonies, but many of us are not. Until you have served and sacrificed you would not get it. I was wounded after leading a mission in Afghanistan and spent 17 months in a treatment facility. I was medically retired at the age of 28 last year as a Captain in the Army. There is nothing phonie about waking up every night terrified, puking during the day from anxiety, crying randomly from mental breakdowns, hallucinations at night, and the list goes on. I busted my ass and bled to earn those benefits. So the “crazies” they are talking about like myself have a right to be mad. Don’t make it out that all of us are a bunch of losers who could not make it. Many including myself have multiple degrees, are very intelligent, and can function at a high level. We just have allot of physiological symptoms that make it hard to even function on a daily basis. Why should you get anything, because you are just “getting by”? I went through years of hard training in the military, missed holidays, missed relationships, missed life experiences for people my age, six years of college in a officer program, multiple combat tours. What the makes you think you deserve what I am getting? You need to stop being ignorant. People like you are the true issue and I am referring to ignorant ones. It is what your ignorance facilitates that causes many of the civil instabilities we have in our society today.
vincent: um, dude . . . Sparks is a Vet. Most of those who comment here regularly are, actually. And many deal with the VA due to being disabled vets themselves.
And yes: there are indeed a sh!tload of people scamming the VA – and getting a partial or total free ride as a result. Every one of those assholes steals money and time that would otherwise go towards taking care of deserving vets.
Read B. G. Burkett’s book Stolen Valor and poke around this site for a while for a representative group (e.g., tip of the iceberg) of examples.
And get down off your damn high horse.
Vincent, you might want to search the archives on this site. There are a lot of articles talking about fake vets that somehow manage to scam a lot of money from the VA while people with legitimate issues are still waiting.
Bill Blake for one.
And this makes you unique and special, how?
Lighten up, Francis.
I didn’t even know that I could actually see my records online.
I bet China already has seen it.
Go to the VA, they’ll have an office where you can do your VA Records registration online for “blue button” options.
Once you do that at the VA, you can go back home and login anytime you like to check your records, appointment schedule (past and future), results, MRIs, Xrays, etc etc. It is rather substantial, but can be helpful for your own archives. (Once something pops up, save it to your computer and back it up somewhere!)
I actually have an appointment at my local VA hospital today. I’ll look into it before I leave.
There is also a secure messaging system where you can send a secure email to your doctor, nurse, etc with any questions you might have, need for another appointment, etc.
PLUS, and this is a big one for me, you can refill your prescriptions online and have them mailed to you. It takes, for me anyway, an average of 7-10 days for a refill to arrive, so I plan accordingly, but it’s VERY handy.
I am very happy with the whole VA online system. It’s called myhealthevet and you can see the website online. Good links to all sorts of health topics, FAQ’s etc. To my mind, it’s an excellent example of what the VA does right.
So the biggest blue falcons in government are really just scared pussies?
Well that solves everything!
Who the fuck are these people and why can’t they be removed for somebody else that can do the job without cowering around like a little shit because they treated people like crap? This is like the DMV on steroids.
But department officials tied the move to one factor: Potential risk to VA staffers.
What’s truly sad about that line is that the VA is a known risk to the safety and care of veterans but nobody seems to care too much about their lack of competency and outright lies that led to some vets dying from lack of care.
Sure, Shinseki lost his job but the local shitbags keep right on working, now apparently in fear for their lives from the people they’ve been fucking over for their entire civil service careers.
It’s not hard to understand that the VA’s problems are institutional if this is the logical progression they use while determining policy.
What’s happened to the concept that it’s an honor to be entrusted with providing access to care for our veterans, especially those who are struggling with a host of medical issues inflicted on them for having the audacity to serve their country?
Maybe a month in an FOB in the ME might help these assholes see the light and start doing what they are being paid to do instead of obstructing progress.
This BS is nothing more than a ploy for VA employees to hide behind and shift blame for incompetence and the intentional and systematic downgrading of claims to the individual vet(s).
Some of these folks would be well suited to APL senior leadership positions methinks, what say you?
I would not be surprised if APL is attempting to access certain VA contracts.
They are about or even more unethical than the VA so it should be a good match.
VOV, didn’t you get the memo? According to the VAOIG investigation, no veterans died in the recent scandal.
“Some of our C-and-P clinics are quite small, … and it doesn’t have much in the way of reasonable defense. We’re very concerned about that.”
Change that to:
“Most of the patients we supposedly serve are quite small, … and they don’t have much in the way of reasonable defense against the entrenched bureaucracy. We’re very concerned about that.”
Don’t even get me started on the Disability claims process…
I think security is a key to providing a solid clinical experience for both patient and practitioner/staff. The small confines of a clinic are brimming with hopes and fears for those in the waiting and patient care areas. Frustrations can come to a boil very quickly and smaller clinics, VA or otherwise, don’t have the same levels of security as a hospital. This concern is valid for any clinic. Fixing it reasonably goes beyond giving someone there due. Some people who come to a clinic thinking they have a particular illness won’t take no for an answer even when all evidence points to the illness not being present. Some folks leave and get a second opinion. Others… don’t. This isn’t about “crazed vets” (those words weren’t even in the article) as much as crappy security. I’d be more mad about that. It’s another thing they didn’t and, apparently, aren’t doing well.
Honestly, I am all for it. I work in a small VA clinic and we have dealt with many threats and I even had a Vet block me in my office for an hour threatening staff. There is no security and the staff is always on edge. The threat is real, and unless peeps work in a clinic I wouldn’t expect them to understand.
That said, if the VA would foot the bill for some security, locks on the doors to the staff areas, and actually protect staff then there would be little need for this.
It was touched upon briefly before, but Vets are dying because of bullshit by people who don’t get held accountable.
So, where is the increase of security to protect veterans against VA civil servants just looking out for their own bonuses?
Where is the accountability? Oh, well there isn’t really any because once people find out they are getting fired, the put their retirement in and duck out before they do get fired.
Speaking of which, How the fuck does it take DOD a year to freakin’ retire someone, but the VA can do it in less than a week?
At the same time, how the fuck can they retire someone in under 5-days at the VA, but it takes them 6 months to update a veteran’s record? Sounds like their “administrative” functions are prioritized to protect their own bureaucracy.
didn’t mean to post this in your thread USMC, I think the thread glitched on me, partially my fault though perhaps.
So its not directed at you, just an FYI. Sorry about that.
All good, my man! For what it’s worth, I agree with what you said completely!
I’m concerned that the VA released the statement worded like this. The VA knows about this stigma and yet the VA is perpetuating it. This is only going to create more tension between the two groups (vets and VA).
Anyone else see the return of the 1932 Bonus Army?
hopefully without Douglas MacArthur
I can imagine that the VA does not want Veterans seeing their diagnosis. The VA has many unqualified personnel conducting C&P exams and, I can only imagine, wants to keep that information as “hidden” as possible.
While they claim it will eventually be seen by the Vet in the case of a VBA appeal, they are scared shitless that some physicians, on the VHA side, (being that they conduct the C&P at the request of the VBA) are being pursued for malpractice, when committed, at the state level. This is the only way in that their is no recourse in the VHA system to pursue a claim of incompetence or malpractice in a neutral (Non-VA) environment.
Something the VA is not talking about and cannot control.
This has more to do with the Vet seeing what is SAID in the notes. I’ve had Vets come into my office complaining about something I wrote in their record and demanding it be removed. I’ve been blocked in my office for an hour with no way out but through the Vet for BS reasons. There is little security at a VA clinic and having someone go off the rails because of something written in their record is a real issue. If the VA provided better security at the clinics I wouldn’t care what they saw in their records.