A comment made here recently brought this little bit of history to mind.
After retiring from the USMC, John Glenn entered politics. He ran as a candidate for the US Senate in 1974 from his native Ohio as a Democrat.
His opponent in the Democratic primary was Howard Metzenbaum – a successful businessman and the incumbent Senator against whom Glenn was running. (Metzenbaum had been appointed to fill the Senate vacancy created when Senator William Saxbe resigned to become US Attorney General earlier in 1974.)
Metzenbaum was not a military veteran. During the primary campaign, he made the statement to the effect that Glenn – because he’d been career military – had “never worked for a living”.
The following was Glenn’s response, delivered on 4 May 1974 during Glenn’s public remarks at the Cleveland City Club in Cleveland, OH.
“Howard, I can’t believe you said I have never held a job.
“I served twenty-three years in the United States Marine Corps. I served through two wars. I flew 149 missions. My plane was hit by anti-aircraft fire on twelve different occasions. I was in the space program. It wasn’t my checkbook; it was my life on the line. It was not a nine-to-five job where I took time off to take the daily cash receipts to the bank.
“I ask you to go with me, as I went the other day, to a Veterans Hospital and look those men, with their mangled bodies, in the eye and tell them they didn’t hold a job. You go with me to any gold-star mother and you look her in the eye and tell her that her son did not hold a job.
“You go with me to the space program, and go as I have gone to the widows and orphans of Ed White and Gus Grissom and Roger Chaffee, and you look those kids in the eye and tell them that their Dad didn’t hold a job.
“You go with me on Memorial Day coming up and you stand in Arlington National Cemetery, where I have more friends than I’d like to remember, and you watch those waving flags. You stand there, and you think about this nation, and you tell me that those people didn’t have a job.
“I’ll tell you, Howard Metzenbaum, you should be on your knees every day of your life thanking God that there were some men – some men – who held a job. And they required a dedication to purpose and a love of country and a dedication to duty that was more important than life itself. And their self-sacrifice is what made this country possible.
“I have held a job, Howard!”
Glenn won the primary handily. He was elected to the Senate in the general election that year.
For what it’s worth: in my view, Glenn got it exactly right. The military is called “the profession of arms” because it is exactly that: a profession, on par with any other professional occupation.
It may be different from most, but yes: it’s a “real job”.
Sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Metzenbaum
(Edited to add: I’d forgotten that at least partial video of Glenn’s speech exists. If you’re interested, you can view it here.)
Well said Hondo (or well quoted…)
I tell people that military service is the second oldest profession in the world.
With a well established link to the oldest profession.lol
Ha! 🙂
what does the military have to do with farmers? 😉
I agree with what Ronald Reagan said, “I have been told that politics is the world’s second oldest profession and I have noticed many times that it bears a striking resemblance to the first.”.
That would be motherhood. A direct result of the first oldest profession. 😉
Did you just call your mother a whore???
DITTO what Sarge said and Veterans benefits are EARNED, not given.
They are earned. You misunderstand what I mean by a socialist program. Socialism does not mean “shit for free”.
Socialism is not communism.
Communism provides for each according to their NEEDS.
Socialism provides for each according to their CONTRIBUTION. The reason people confuse the two is because socialism measure contribution based on ability. SO the elderly, infirm, or unemployable are afforded a basic level of substance living because their ABILITY to contribute misunderstood to be diminished.
When you served, you CONTRIBUTED, significantly. And thus you are given benefits for that contribution.
The difference is that the market did not determine the value of your service. Society did, through a social-political process that understood that the amount of revenue or profit your work generates for an employer is not the only way to measure your “value” or “contribution” to society.
Our volunteer service blends the borders between how much of the military compensation is effected by the market and how much is effected by socialist ideals about your contribution to society. But when the GI bill was implemented it was a draft time military and remained that way for decades.
The original bill proposal also was intended to provide for civilian poor and unemployed due to the displacement of workers by returning soldiers. That part was left out of the final bill.
*is understood to be diminished. Not “misunderstood”.
Hey Lars. Just FYI. I didn’t read your 2 posts immediately above. Mostly, because I don’t give a shit what you think.
Apparently you do, or you would not be sufficiently annoyed at me to resort to petty trolling.
Not necessarily. He may truly not care what you think and may just enjoy insulting you.
I don’t give a ratsass either. I scroll down when I see your name. I do have question for you. Where you military/draft dodger/protester? You weren’t born yet..what’s your job title? I really don’t care, just trying to figure why your such a Bernasty? Related? Okay
Obviously, Lars the trout-sniffing poodle has never had an up close and personal encounter with someone who actually LIVED in a communist country before she and her parents emigrated from the Soviet Union to the USofA.
I will be interested in seeing what Nicki has to say on this uninformed jackanapes who holds his little old self out to be an expert on things he knows nothing about, because LARZZZZ!!!
Socialism is not communism.
Market socialism is not socialism.
Market socialism preserves a capitalist free market.
I have met a lot of people that are from market socialist countries.
In fact because market socialist countries invest in their citizens they are flocking to well ranked US universities. Arguably displacing American students because their government pays the universities more than the tuition rate Americans pay. Many universities struggling to meet revenue needs with budgets cuts are accepting a larger percentage of foreign students. Particularly from Norway and Sweden.
Sweden….my name is “Lars”. I know a few Swedes.
Misspell! LIAR, you forgot the I and added a S. GLAD I caught it ?
You can’t even get your head around the basic fact that communism, socialism, and market socialism are not the same thing an you criticize me for talking about things I know nothing about?
My field of study IS political economy and my professional field is governance and development and policy analysis. The entire field focuses on dealing with issues that include economic collapse and economic development.
You just can’t stand that I actually DO know what I am talking about.
I have an MBA, but that doesn’t mean I know everything about business and can’t contemplate divergent opinions.
I’m with you, IDC SARC… MBA grad that doesn’t claim to know “everything”
Of course they’re not the “same”. “Socialism” today is essentially “Communism with newer, more politically acceptable terminology.” “Market Socialism” today is essentially government direction and control of private enterprise – with a hefty dose of “good for you” regulation imposed.
In the end, they’re all about a small group of “enlightened ones” running things to “benefit the people” because “the masses are incapable of properly caring for themselves”. Communists called that “the dictatorship of the proletariat” and branded it an “intermediate state” which justified their control of everything. Progressives/Socialists claim it’s “for the children” or “to save humanity from itself” – and use that as justification for their need to control everything. Market Socialists appear to say much the same, but couch their pronouncements in more economic terms – and justify their control of all things economic and governmental for the same reason (“we know better than you do what’s good for you, so we’ll tell you what you can do and how you must do it”).
Each of those systems are antithetical to the concept of personal freedom. While personal freedoms can have legal limits, those legal limits rightfully exist solely where ones actions demonstrably begin to affect the rights of others or damage society as a whole. A system that restricts individual freedoms merely because those in power disapprove of some action that has not been conclusively proven to hurt/endanger others or damage society lacks legitimacy. Communism, Socialism, and Market Socialism all IMO do exactly that, and are all thus suspect.
There needs to be a “like” or a “seconded” button. That is far more eloquent than I could have put it; and spot on.
Was I supposed to answer the troutsniffer? I’ve been busy all day with important things like grocery shopping and taking advantage of sale prices on chicken. I had my mind on free market capitalism, in which a merchant reduces at will the price of a market item, such as chicken, to move it out of the store and make room for more at a possibly lower price, instead of throwing it out or putting a new expiration date on it at the direction of some government bureaucrat. I managed to stock my freezer with it for about a six week period ahead, at a very reduced price. Ditto gas at the pump: that price is directed by a free market commodities economy, not by a bureaucrat. Because it’s dropped so much I could barely squeeze $15 worth of regular into the tank. I happily blessed the Saudis (govt) for dropping the per barrel price of oil to try to undercut ISIS, which they barely do now. Since the Saudis (govt) control the price at the wellhead pump, they have tough competition in a free market that doesn’t give a shit about their profits. Even Vlad the Inscrutable is pissed because he can’t get his usual price from the Turks, who are buying their crude from ISIS. Fortunately, because there is a huge surplus of crude, there is no need to add more ethanol to available supplies of mogas, which Glorious Leader the Maroon thought we should do. That not only leads to engine damage, it also creates extensive damage to overworked farmland. I could go into great detail about that, but this comment box is a mere 1.5 ins. by 2.25 ins. As it is, I’ll settle for saying that Lars the trout-sniffing poodle, who has yet to hold a private sector job, may have a lot of theoretical knowledge about stuff, but lacks the practical application side of it. Everything he knows comes out of a book. No ‘real’ world application, and I’ll bet he’ll squeal like a trapped rat if the price of lattes goes up. That, and… Read more »
Why, if only there were some way for individuals to work out whether another persons “contribution” is valuable to them and for the two of them to work out a means of exchange without the interference of some superfluous third party.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjective_theory_of_value
Clearly, since such a thing is impossible, we must have a cadre of unctuous busybodies who direct our every interaction via the power of the state.
Or we can simply ignore them, can’t we?
Would that that were an option. But since they have shown that they are willing to use said power of the state against their enemies (real, perceived or just useful for their political ends), we can’t afford to ignore them.
And here I thought you were talking about someone more – well, local. My bad.
No. We cannot afford to ignore the power-hungry tyranny hiding behind a surgically-induced smile, under any circumstances.
Socialism is parasitism.
Socialism is using government force of arms to rob Peter to give to Paul so Paul can sit on his ass and suck down beers all day.
And, in your Saint Stalin’s own words, Socialists are never anything but useful idiots for the Communist cause.
To be a socialist requires an actual mental retardation that prevents the ability to relate cause to effect over time.
Socialism is idiotism.
These stupid libs like larseyboi think that people will work just as hard at what they do when the government comes in and takes 90% of those rewards away from them and gives it to the other person.
It’s like this. A communist will bully you to take away your stuff.
A socialist will put their arm around you pat you on the back, call you a good person but tell you that they have to take your roast beef sandwich with potatoes and gravy lunch from you to give to someone else but they will buy you lunch tomorrow.
So tomorrow comes and they give you a baloney sandwich with Dijon mustard…
Yes, you got a free lunch but your lunch yesterday was eaten by the one that took your food while they passed out baloney sandwiches to others they stole their lunch from the day before…
In other words, you get screwed no matter which way you look.
https://youtu.be/8v2_QIhk0jQ
I get a hard-on every time I hear this.
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v2_QIhk0jQ&w=420&h=315%5D
Like
Reminds me of my years with the Marines as a young Corpsman in the 60s & 70s. Damn, they knew what they were about. Most vets have both a favorite ‘tour of duty’ and a favorite ‘duty station.’ My years with the Marines were my favorite tours of duty. They weren’t even close to being my favorite duty stations, though,being in overseas hellholes. Wow, I miss those years.
That was my old platoon Sgt. Brian Wallgreen. Guy was a motivator and one of the few SNCO that actually cared about his marines under him. Great guy.
Hondo – NICE!
BZ
I get this shit all the time, especially now that I’m retired. “You’re lucky, I had to WORK for a living.” Some folks really resent the retirement check we get. A gentleman of my acquaintance, not really a friend, who I will occasionally have lunch with at the sale barn, always expect me to pick up the check because I’m “suckin’ at the government tit.” He’s 60, no education beyond high school, manual labor and rodeo’d all his life, now he laments his poor station in life and truly believes that he should be getting a monthly stipend just like me. He worked so many years “under the table” that he doesn’t have enough qualifying quarters yet to collect social security, so while guys like me live it on the backs of his effort (“my taxes pay your retirement!”) he’s got to slave over a lukewarm cash register at AutoZone.
Well, fuck ’em all. If it was so easy, everybody’d be doin’ it.
You’re far more polite that I am. I’d probably tell him the following: “If it was such a ‘damn good deal’, why didn’t you join the military? They’ve been hiring qualified people for decades.”
Doesn’t sound like he’s been paying taxes to pay your retirement to me. But I could be wrong.
Stop buying his lunch, Channel D.
My ex’s new husband once said to me that if I’d been a real man then I’d have got out of the Navy after my first kid was born so that I’d be around more for them.
I offered to take him to every VFW post in the surrounding towns and have him repeat that statement in front of the members. I said if he survived then I’d buy his drinks for the rest of the night, but it would be hard to hold the glass with broken fingers and the alcohol would sting when it hit the sockets where his teeth used to be.
He’s said about two words to me since then.
Your ex wife would’ve been newly widowed if I’d have been in your shoes. That took a special person to even say that to a father who has been separated from his children.
The thought did cross my mind. But then I remembered that I’m too pretty for prison.
If it’s any condolence, I would have been SCREAMING at myself in my own mind “NOT WORTH the jail time, NOT WORTH the jail time,…” as I gave him an acid-tongued ass-chewing.
Where do fuckheads like that come from?
Where? Usually from the local “institution of higher learning”. Or, they pick it up listening to Dad talk about it. Dad likely never served either.
This particular fuckhead apparently spent some time in prison. Yeah, he’s not that bright. He has a regular job, but on the side he mows lawns. Oh, excuse me, he owns a landscaping business.
As soon as my last kid turns 18 next year, I’m not just going to burn that bridge, I’m calling in an air strike and dropping it into the river. By bridge, I mean my ex and her dummy spouse. Not my kids.
Too many fuckers never learned to differentiate between excess of balls and lack of brains.
I was told by my older sister that I should never been allowed back into “Polite Society” because I was a murdering, Red-Neck, Marine. She has a masters as does her husband the retired reporter, now teacher. They hate all Military and Police. But the universe, God, or Karma have a lovely sense of humor. Her son is a cop, who owns guns and shops at Wal-Mart. Good Answer Chief, please Nuke that Bridge when you come to it, I’ll string the wire.
Nukes kind of overkill and anti-climatic.
I’d suggest calling for fire from an MLRS battery on a 4 digit grid.
I envision something like this
https://youtu.be/V0FPqdsC8_Y
Or this
https://youtu.be/QQN-QtFAqqk
Really? You gonna destroy an entire grid square to take out a single house?
Fire Mission!
Ex-familymember in the open.
Grid…..
HEY JtJ, I have a sister that has an MFA (Master of Fine Arts degree) and her schooling was paid for by our parents. She has disowned me in every way she can and refers to me as a “Republican Bastard” to our Mom & Dad (My youngest Sister’s boys keep me supplied with intel) and never ceases to cuss about me, my other sister and anyone else that doesn’t goose-step along with the liberal agenda. She can go shit on her favorite keepsake for all I care, I couldn’t care less, and I NUKED every bridge with her out of existence years ago and re-nuked them when she tried to start a spat between me, my youngest sister and my wife.
Hell, I’m the worst kind of MFA, I did my service for seven years, own all kinds of guns and did my damnedest to piss off every pansy ass liberal I had the misfortune of running into in art school.
Had one kid in painting class say that if the US was attacked he would just move to Canada because “What has the US ever done for me?” This was before 9-11.
My response was that I would happily kick his ass across the border right now and proceeded to explain to him how the military protected his right to be an ignorant jackass, coddled and protected by men and women much better than his candy ass ever deserved.
I was told that my response was offensive. I told them that I hadn’t even started to get offensive. For some reason those kind of conversations stopped in my classes.
You sure that wasn’t five words –“You want fries with that?”
Sometimes I wonder if he’d even qualify for that.
It’s good to read his words from time to time. John Glenn may be the last honorable Dem to serve in Congress. (In all fairness, there have not been many honorable Reps lately either.)
I don’t disagree with Senator Glenn, but he’s still a lying scumbag as a politician.
Fuck you Mr. Glenn you ruined your good name with your banking scandal participation.
A Veteran is someone, who at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to “The United States of America”, for an amount of “up to and including my life”.
That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.
Metzenbaum would have been correct if he said that Senator Glenn had never created any wealth during his time in the military.
He was a dumbass and wrong for suggesting that the military isn’t a “real” job.
It’s of course a real job, the problem with the job from the perspective of wealth creation is that no government job creates wealth because the entire government runs off of the wealth of guys like Metzenbaum.
Since Metzenbaum was too stupid to approach the issue correctly he was rightly the loser in that election. Of course the people got a guy whose jugdment was less than stellar when it comes to the tune of conflict of interest, but the dems have a lot of people who don’t understand what that means apparently.
You are correct in that very few government jobs “create” wealth per se (one might quibble with all, because a few R&D-related and/or natural resource related government occupations may do exactly that). In general, wealth creation is the function of private enterprise.
However, the creation of wealth requires a stable, safe environment in which to do so. This implies that some number of government functions are essential enablers of private wealth creation. Law enforcement, fair courts/rule of law, public roads/highways, and mail delivery are classic examples. In general, they are also functions that private enterprise either cannot perform for itself, or for which centralized government functionality has been held to be more desirable than Balkanizaed piecemeal private execution.
Take away any of those above, and private enterprise has substantially less capacity to generate wealth. And the list above is not exhaustive; I’ve doubtless missed a few that should be there.
However, those functions listed above are all internal. Enabling and underpinning all of those is defending the nation against external enemies.
The essential nature of the last should be obvious. The resources of conquered areas typically are not used to generate wealth for their inhabitants. Rather, they are used to generate wealth for their conquerors, leaving the inhabitants to subsist on whatever the conqueror deigns to allow them to keep.
Well said.
I’ve no quarrel with you on this, from a perspective of a candidate like a Trump currently the correct approach would have been to ask what Glenn had done to create wealth. The answer would have been nothing, Glenn had zero experience in making payroll in meeting client demands and market pressure.
Those things matter when trying to alter the economy. You are of course correct in that none of that matters if you can’t maintain a nation state as a sovereign entity. But that’s hardly in question, John Glenn’s contribution to keeping America safe was well known and Metzenbaum a fucking moron for taking the approach that he did.
My point was in an election about the economy, economic experience and wealth creation matter. Or at least they should. Glenn won on his name and Metzenbaum being a useless appointed turd. Not on any ability to create economic success.
Off topic to your response, for me, one could argue that after being elected Mr. Glenn exhibited all the characteristic democratic tendencies in using piss poor judgment with respect to those 1%ers who backed his campaign and were responsible for questionable banking practices.
So maybe the people got what they deserved for electing the democrat after all.
You forgot to add, “well you could become a politican and DC and you’ll ‘create’ your own wealth.”
Are you twitting me again, Hondo?
Hey, I signed up twice. Fuck it.
Twitting? No. Merely politely disagreeing.
See my response below. <3 <3 <3
Damn it got dusty as hell in here.
I enjoyed what I did and yeah, sometimes I personally feel that being an Infantryman wasn’t a ‘real job’. It’s hard to understand why I came back while a lot of people didn’t and carrying that burden properly will weigh me down to my grave with compounding force. On occasion it’s easy to be humble and cathartically dismissive of my military service but heaven help the poor bastard that demeans my Brothers’ and Sisters’ sacrifices.
So Mr. or Mrs. Too-secure-in-the-blanket-of-Freedom, do yourself and us a favor, if you have a criticism of Service Members; remember just who the fuck you are speaking ill about.
Hugs and kisses,
Roh-Dog
Awesome.
Great post.
Okay, I did twit that lard critter in a different spot about ‘real’ world and ‘real’ job, but he does bring out the best in all of us, doesn’t he? The difference between the private sector (the ‘real’ world I referred to) and the military is that unless I’m mistaken, no private sector employer offers the 100% coverage benefits (e.g., providing direct medical and dental services) to its employees the way the military does. Private sector employers generally offer things like general screenings or flu/pneumonia shots for a small fee. I don’t know if they still offer FlexSavings accounts, which pay for deductible expenses, but the health insurance industry is such a screwed-up mess now, I’m glad I’m out of it. Unless things have changed substantially in regard to 401Ks and Roth IRAs, both of which are worthwhile plans, private sector employers generally do offer some kind of retirement plans to their employees. Or maybe I was just lucky and got it while it was hot. Tuition reimbursement for work-related classes was also a benefit. The military, on the other hand, does offer a real pension and work-related classes and training as long as you stay in. However, not everyone stays in the uniformed services for the length of time required to qualify for those retirement benefits. And you can’t take them with you if you leave before you qualify. In the private sector, your retirement savings are yours. You take them with you when or if you change jobs. In the sense that you get pay and benefits, it’s a real job, but it’s also a sheltered work environment which is not true of the private sector. What the private sector does offer is the freedom to leave at the end of the day and week, and go do whatever you do for fun and no extra hours, unless it’s the year’s end. You also have the freedom to choose what kind of job you want to have. The military does not offer that kind of flexibility. And last but certainly not least, it’s far easier to get RIF’d… Read more »
“In the private sector, your retirement savings are yours. You take them with you when or if you change jobs.”
Unless you are a public school teacher, work for a rail road (Amtrak), or in states that I know of, a state employee who still have the old pension system and pay into that instead of SS and a 401k.
One can argue the lack of portability of retirement breeds employees staying who are burnt out and should leave.
I know a teacher who moved often for her husband’s work and had to work for 45 years to earn 80% of what others who had worked 30 earned 100%. Fortunately she loved it.
State employees really are not the private sector, like GE or GMC or Microsoft. Teachers are considered to be state employees and unless they moonlight outside of teaching, they do not pay into or get any credit for social security. They only pay into the pension fund.
Exactly, as I said, they don’t pay into SS or 401k. I know because I am in the system. I will never draw from it because, even though I am contract/temp, I have to pay in and will loose it when I am done (I don’t plan on staying in state schools or this state), but I love teaching, so I consider it an opportunity cost.
But you are right they are not private sector unless, like me, they contract and will loose it.
While the folks that work for US railroads technically do not pay into Social Security, they do pay into the Federal Railroad Retirement Benefit system. Its Tier I portion is funded the same way as Social Security – e.g., by payroll taxes. For Tier I, tax rates and benefits are very similar to those for Social Security (a few benefits appear somewhat more generous, but these tend to deal with disability and early requirement penalties).
Tier I Railroad Retirement is also funnels income and disbursements through a “trust fund”. Its trust is in better shape than Social Security’s – but has been running a deficit with respect to current inflow/outflow since at least 1959. The difference has been made up by transfers of funding from Social Security. It’s thus effectively been subsidized by the Social Security since at least 1959.
https://www.socialsecurity.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v68n2/v68n2p41.html
Tier II RRB is a different story. That’s actually closer to a pension plan with defined contribution requirements. It’s also optional, as I recall.
I worked for Amtrak for a couple years ages ago, so I am familiar with the system but am unaware of the “state” of it as you have written. The system, if you stay in it, is a good deal from what I recall, but you have to stay in it. Again, for me, it was a job I worked to pay to live so I could get through school. That was also a temporary project job, but I was “required” to pay into their system knowing I would never get it back.
I had at that time no choice whether I could or could not pay into the system, and in the end, lost all those payments that were required from me. (this was 1996ish)
Again, this was not portable, neither is my required state employee payments as contract/temporary staff.
I believe you can recoup the time you were covered under RRB as credit for employment under Social Security. The Tier I taxes are identical to those of Social Security – 6.2% OASDI, plus 1.45% for Medicare – and the two programs are coordinated. However, I have no clue regarding the mechanics of doing that.
You may well be correct about any Tier II taxes you paid. They are indeed taxes, not employee contributions – so you can probably kiss that 3.9% of your railroad earnings goodbye forever.
You’re obviously correct regarding Tier II being mandatory. My memory was in error regarding how Tier II worked – I was remembering it as being contributory vice tax funded. It’s the latter.
I hope you are correct. At the time I researched it I couldn’t find anything to the contrary that I simply lost what was paid in. If SS even exists by the time I get there 😉
Found it. Here ya go.
https://www.ssa.gov/planners/retire/railroad.html
Still don’t know the mechanics, but it looks like you’re in luck with respect to your RRB time counting one way or another. So don’t throw out those old pay stubs or W2s from Amtrak. (smile)
Well, I’m screwed if I have to find those! 20 years ago! Now I know why my mother still has her tax returns from 1956!
Thank you! I’ll look into it! 🙂
You’re welcome.
You might not need the old paperwork. It’s possible that info has already been transferred to your SSA records.
I’d suggest checking your SSA annual statement of earnings (you can request one from SSA). If that was the only job you had that generated a W2 those years and income is listed for you in those years on the SSA statement, it’s a decent bet that happened.
In any event, you might want to contact SSA and get more info from them on the subject. Your call.
I’ll definitely take a look at it. It looks like changes were made in 2002, but I never heard of it. Yippee! I have that statement around here somewhere, now I’ll have to really look at it. Thanks a bunch (again)!
Just go to the SSA’s site and put in a request for overall earnings statement. They’re supposed to send that to you every year, anyway.
Speaking of teachers… I work in a district that the teachers are thinking about going on strike after Spring Break (Doing it for “the kids”) and the bickering is getting ugly between the teacher’s union and the school district. One day, a teacher who was screaming at me for some stupid reason, made the flippant comment, “You don’t know what it’s like to be a teacher”. I proceeded to “educate” her that I did know what it was like – I has spent TWO separate tours as an instructor and had held various positions at the training commands that one of the assistant superintendents does at this district. I then told her that I had taught to classes as large as 150 students, written curriculum and tests, stood up a Phase II “C” school and then dropped the big one on her “How many times have you had to go into your classroom and tell your students that a classmate had passed away? I had to do it THREE separate times!”
It shut her up… she hasn’t talked to me in 12 months.
Many civilians are fucking clueless about military life and they show it the moment they open their mouths.
I can’t speak to what full time teachers in elementary school districts do, as I only substitute, but I do so in a great system with some fabulous teachers, which in my experience is not usual.
I can say that in teaching college (not full time), right from the first class, I can tell who the military are and are not – the way they carry themselves, the attention given, the questions asked – not surprising. As a class progresses, you can tell by the way their work is handed in – accuracy, effort, timeliness, etc. I’d rather have a class full of military than a class of entitled whiny brats who want a grade handed to them because daddy won’t be happy and the school wants you to give him an A so daddy continues to pay the school. Doesn’t matter what knowledge they get out of it. No, I can’t imagine what it would be like to tell a class what you have, but to get in trouble because you failed 10 of your 30 students because THEY didn’t put in the effort required of college and somehow that is your fault because you didn’t make it “fun” (I didn’t go back to that school when asked to even though I need the work) has it’s own lovely bucket of doo-doo, albeit on a completely different scale and not remotely close to yours. Apples and oranges I suppose.
I’m sorry you had that experience. Some people are just that way.
Thanks for your comment… there are schools in the district that have some AWESOME people teaching kids and do some amazing things, but the school that I was talking about has too many that are unhappy with their lives and their profession.
I’d bet $100 that you’re a great substitute teacher… and the classes you sub for look forward to having you every time you show up!
“Unhappy with their lives and profession” EXACTLY! That is why I disagree with the pension system. These people should be able to leave and if their pensions were portable many would! They’re burnt out or just terrible and picked the wrong career – they stay because “only 10 more years and 100%”. Our children suffer.
Well, when I was subbing art a girl walked in and said “Oh awesome! It’s Ms. xxx! I love you!” When they’re in gym I make them make noise warming up. I bring stuff from home and show videos of my dog pulling my son on a sled. I come home with all sorts of drawings and cards and my son walks around school having random kids say things to him like “your mom’s great” so, I suppose they like me a little 🙂
I was an AIT instructor for 4 years and had an argument with a civilian once about being a teacher.
I had more contact hours with students in that 4 years than the average teacher would have in over 10 years, worked holidays, didn’t get the summer off, worked weekends, etc. (plus, my “kids” got smellier than a whole kindergarten class after a chili mac lunch)
Even after that, as an NCO, you never stop teaching someone something.
And you have perfect examples of that overwhelming teacher privilege in California, where teachers are the highest paid (6 figure salary), lifetime healthcare for them and their immediate family, and an up to 5-year process to get one fired, potentially. But are 36th, 33rd, and 32nd? in graduation rates the last 3 years. Ohhhh, but You military people aren’t real teachers….
Even the military has limits. For example you are charged a fee (it is very reasonable)for every inpatient day at a military hospital. They do pay 100% for services they offer, but there are many services/options they do not offer.
Point of trivia:The military also now has a 401K program.
Both of those have changed, if that’s the case. There was only the pension at 20 years (or more) and all medical care, including hospitalization, was free.
yeah, things change. Some of my duties involved dealing with billing and getting authorization for care through the Office of Medical Affairs. I was also hospitalized myself during my time in.
There are sometimes ways around things and I tried to find those ways for the Marines in my units.
True – it’s called the TSP-U (Thrift Savings Plan – Uniformed). And military personnel have been able to contribute to IRAs as long as the general public has.
FWIW: in 2013, only 18% of private-sector employers in the US offered a pension plan. That’s about half the percentage as during the early 1990s. They’re also generally cost-prohibitive for small businesses.
Defined-benefit pension plans also have vesting requirements. Work for less than the minimum number of years, and you typically get a payout consisting of your own contributions (perhaps with interest) vice a pension.
Work for the military less than 20 years and you are 0% vested, too.
However, I will have to agree with others that the original post is great, and shows that before hitting senility (the day he nominated Palin) and fell into the banking folks’ pockets, Glenn was once a helluva good man.
However, DoD doesn’t do any “Matching” of funds. 100% of what goes in is Soldier pay. As I recall, you can only deposit 10% max monthly? Not including special pays.
DA Civilians however, have had 3 or 4% “Matched” for over a decade, at least.
And I know that because I had a conversation with a DA civilian complaining about ONLY getting that low percentage matched, compared to her previous civilian job.
The maximum match for DoD civilians is 5%.
If your employer offers a match and you’re not taking full advantage, fie on you – you’re leaving free money on the table.
Yes – and no. See below.
Right, I was simplifying by cutting to the bottom line: contribute 5%, the government kicks in 5%. I agree with your point about the formula being needlessly complex.
OK – and sorry if that didn’t come across well. No intent to offend.
lol..thanks for reminding me that I’ve been ignoring my account for yet another year.
I don’t have a clue what I have in there.
It’s actually a bit more complex than that, MSG Eric.
Under CSRS (the “old” retirement program), employees can participate in TSP. However, if I recall correctly TSP contributions for those under CSRS are 100% employee, are limited to 5% of salary, and there is zero match. Been a while since I researched that one, so things might have changed. In particular, the contributions limit may now be the annual 401k limit.
Under the newer Federal civilian retirement system FERS, the cap on contributions is the annual 401k limit; employees can contribute any amount annually up to that amount. Participation is voluntary. If they participate at all, the employee gets an automatic contribution by their employer equal to 1% of pay during any period they make a contribution. The first 3% of employee salary contributed by the employee is also matched dollar-for-dollar. The next 2% is matched at 50 cents per dollar. Above that, there’s no government matching.
Effectively, a 5% contribution of salary gets a dollar-for-dollar match if the 1% automatic contribution is counted. The actual salary match is only 4%, but the automatic 1% is free money too and goes in the same account. (smile)
There’s also a “catch-up” provision, where employees > 50 years old can contribute more. Not sure if that applies to those Federal employees still under the old CSRS system or not, but it does to those under the newer FERS retirement system.
Yeah, it’s needlessly complex – a simple “we’ll match dollar-for-dollar up to 5% of salary” would have had much the same effect. It was probably written that way to “front load” things for the hypothetical “poor, struggling GS-1s who can’t afford to contribute 1% of salary”. (Not sure I’ve ever met one.) But the Federal government does seem to like to make things more complex than necessary.
Lowest GS paygrade I ever banged, I mean met was a GS-4.
“And last but certainly not least, it’s far easier to get RIF’d in the private sector than in the military, although that may have changed recently.”
Yes, that has most definitely changed in the last two years. President Obama is doing his best to balance the budget on the backs of the military, and is making more veterans everyday.
Where I am, it’s like the brass is trying to catch sand in a sieve. My squadron’s losing like five NCOs next month, all seps and retirees. Can’t blame ’em, really– the writing on the wall says the military is soon to become just a political proving ground-cum-social justice experiment.
I thought it was not just a JOB but an ADVENTURE.
I am sorry that so many people have missed out on understanding the greatest JOB in our Country and have missed out WORKING with some of the GREATEST Americans there are.
Their loss, and that is why they do not understand.
You have to “Walk it to Talk it”
I have often minimized my service, by saying I had to go back to school and get a real job after I retired. It’s hard to explain what the SARC community is anyway.
I was in an elevator at a hospital talking to a patient, when he remarked that I sounded like I had served in the military. There were some pleasantries exchanged and from it was derived that he hadn’t served etc etc.
Everything was low key and civil until I threw out laughingly the shtick about having to get a real hob after I retired. He became irate and I tried to explain that I was just joking and I was thankful that the elevator door soon opened and I unassed the elevator in the opposite direction.lol
Sometimes ya just can’t win.
Infantry: Strong back, weak mind.
I have made that “joke” for years.
Given IDC’s predilection for swinging it at anything that moves? I’d reckon he’s got a lot more than just a strong back.
My Dad used to say that. But he was a supply guy and they all had sticky fingers!
hob=job…I don’t needz no steenking proof reading
musta lived in El Paso too ong; thought you were pronouncing it phonetically in Spanglish
Another way to put it:
You can get a job.
Or you can seek a calling.
I apologize for others ignorance.
To your benefit, though, if “real jobs” include cashiering, slinging drinks, and working a grill for minimum wage (which I have done at some points earlier in this life I lead) or standing in front of a podium spewing lies, I think you may have chosen the more productive path even if you had signed your life away for less than minimum wage.
Maybe I am out of line being a civilian, but I don’t consider what our military does a “job”. I consider it military – its own category. You can’t just walk away from a commitment you make to Uncle. You can’t say no when they order you to leave your wife and newborn child. You can’t just quit, even if you’re the one working the grill. Someone else runs your life and you allow them to for something greater than yourself.
No, you didn’t have a “real (civilian) job” you held a military position. Two very different things.
A better way to look at it might be to view the military as a “profession” or “calling” than as a “job”, Civilian She.
One can make a very good argument athat career military have much more in common with certain other somewhat closed-community public-service professions (e.g., LE, medical, clergy) than with most other occupations. Each of those communities has a recognized professional ethos; accepted professional standards and certifications; internal bonding and recognition; and derives substantial motivation from other than strictly financial factors. Career military share those characteristics.
It really is more a way of life/profession/calling than simply a “job”. That was quite apparent to me, even though I ended my career as a reservist – albeit one who split time about 45/55 between time on active duty and civilian life while wearing the uniform.
I tried to stay away from the word “profession” as I think some make it a profession (career) and some a stepping stone or other reason, but yes a calling is a good word for it, because I do not agree with it being lumped in with a job.
I agree with you on the characteristics of motivation and similarities to some of the professions you listed, but I still believe it is in a category unto itself – not lesser but probably more important. All those other professions you retain the ability to walk away at any time. You retain free will. You do share a higher calling with some. However, military even though they fight to preserve freedom ironically give up their own in order to do so. It is an interesting phenomenon to see from the outside. But you are correct, many professions require a passion and purpose that is greater than their own self. In that they definitely share similarities.
That’s a very good way of looking at it and I wish others would look at it in the same manner.
I remember this from the movie “The Right Stuff” and it seems to be relevant today:
Trudy Cooper: [about being the wife of a test pilot] I went back east to a reunion and all my friends could talk about their husband’s work. How “dog-eat-dog” and cutthroat it was on Madison Ave. Places like that.
[under her breath]
Trudy Cooper: Cutthroat.
[to everyone]
Trudy Cooper: I wondered how they would’ve felt if every time their husband went in to make a deal, there was a one in four chance he wouldn’t come out of that meeting.
[begins sobbing]
It’s true, nothing can compare to that, but by the same token I find (and of course there are exceptions) many don’t like the attention that is put on them for making the choice to be military, even if that means not coming home. They learn how to live with all the variables as best they can. Many military men I have met choose not to marry until they are out and for some that means never doing so and moreso not having children. I find that an extraordinary sacrifice. If they are married, their wives take on that same stoic attitude. My much older sister did at least, still does all these years later managing her husbands service-connected ailments after his long career and never once uttering a regret. Remarkable.
I agree Hondo.
As recently as the Spanish-American War, our nation employed its military forces to create wealth by exploitation of the economies of conquered territories. With but a token force the United States forced a chaotic and internally weakened Mexico to cede what is now California and the American Southwest. The British Empire may have owed its success to skilled administration of its colonies but those colonies first had to be brought to heel by the might of the Royal Navy and the British Army.
The list goes on and on.
My highest earning year in the Navy, 1975 I pulled in an astounding 5313.00 as an E-4. Out on Westpac working 6 on 6 off for months at a time while we played tag with the Ruskkies. No days off, no vacation time, lots of stress and tension, pulling in .65 cents an hour. But it wasn’t a “real” job I guess.
Ironically I make more now from VA disability than I made then and I don’t have a job at all.
As I recall, in his book Parliament of Whores PJ O’Rourke dubbed him “the appalling Howard Metzenbaum”. Quite apt.
That’s the best book about government written in the past 50 years-a “devil’s civics text”, but so much more accurate regarding the actual operation of government than any other such book.
I have to agree with whoever started the talk about how being in the Military isn’t a job.
Flipping burgers is a job.
Selling used cars is a job.
Being in the Military is a lifestyle.
Not too many jobs out there, that you will spend the rest of your life paying for it mentally and physically so that others may sleep peacefully in their own beds at night. Or in your ex spouses bed, as the case may be.
Screw them, they will never understand.