An Alaska lawmaker is tries to flout Federal transportation money that holds states hostage to a federal drinking age in exchange for the right of troops to come home from war and legally have a beer;
An Alaska lawmaker who served in Vietnam is pushing a bill that would allow active-duty service members under 21 to drink alcohol as long as they could produce an armed forces identification card. Those under 19 — Alaska’s smoking age — would be allowed to buy tobacco products.
“It’s not fair that one guy in a fox hole can go home and have a beer while another guy in the fox hole can’t,” said Rep. Bob Lynn, R-Anchorage. “It’s not about drinking, it’s not about smoking, it’s about equality. If you get shot at, you can have a shot.”
But Lynn’s bill has received a cool reception from the state’s armed forces commanders, who worry it would encourage unhealthy behavior in a military that wants to reduce smoking and curb drinking.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we know what the commanders want. But they’re not our parents and we’re old enough to make our own decisions. Tons of service members have had a beer and lived through it.
Precisely.
Old enough to bleed?
Old enough to drink.
In total agreement with OldCavLt.
I’m trying to remember the last time any of my commanders were on the side of the troops in regards to morale and welfare…
Mandatory fun day? Sure. But don’t drink!
Umpteenth Ball? All right you Company Grades — you have 3 hours to get trashed before PVT Snuffy and the rest of the detail get here to cleanup our mess!!! Hey Specialst, you ain’t 21 yet put that Heineken down!!
Christ….
Our battalion commander and CSM during the deployment in ’06-’07 showed their spines just once, when they defied the policy (put in place while we were in theater) that forbade mobilized reserve component soldiers to drink. We had one night during demob to go out (in groups not less than 4) with guys we had lived and fought with for the previous year. (Since we were heavily augmented by sailors and airmen, we wouldn’t be seeing most of them again after this.)
Our 1SG brews his own and brings it to annual training. No one gets hammered, no one drives, and we’ve never had any issues at all in our company. I don’t recall checking for IDs.
I’ll never forget this silliness in Vietnam. I came from an 18 year old drink anything state.
Got to Vietnam and they crossed hard booze off my “ration card”. I could only drink beer. Silly…yep.
Now, the senior NCO’s, God Bless them, would always have a table ready with all the hard stuff we could drink when we’d come back to main base for a 3 day stand down…but the very idea that we were literally not allowed to drink the hard stuff was ridiculous.(drinking it not enforceded…buying it was) I’d also like to thank everyone else that had the steaks, baked taters’ and anyhting else we wanted to eat.
If you can fight…if you can vote…you can have a Goddamm drink.
Old Cav Lt….if you’re as old as me…or a little older…thanks for never enforcing this shit!
Honor and Courage and Beefeaters
They probably should have crossed beer of that ration card too. Probably would have saved you a lot of trouble back home. Just my $0.02.
Maybe if the 18-19 year olds we have coming into the military weren’t a bunch of pre-pubscent dolts sometimes I would support it. Until then, 21 seems about right seeing as the number of suicides is high and accidents amongst that age group is high as well. Why create more statistics? It’s 21 for a reason.
If they can vote, they can drink. If they wear the uniform, they can buy whatever they want.
Any legislator or limp-dick civilian says otherwise, they need to be treated to a blanket party and sent packing.
It’s a damned disgrace that some jackwagon nanny-stater wants to enforce this damned rule. We need some folks in government with the stones to just say NO loud and clearly to these sorts and tell them they have a choice. Either raise the age of majority for voting and everything else to 21, or reduce it to 18 across the board.
What sort of brain-dead moron believes that a 19 year old kid, trained and responsible for a 25+ million-dollar aircraft isn’t responsible enough to drink?
As I said, if they have taken the oath, they should get EVERY right as an adult.
I was in the front wave of the raising 18 to 21 deal. When I was at Great Mistakes, IL was 21, WI was 18 and had just gone to 19. Guess where everyone went? Yup–Milwaukee. And drove. Yeah, I was gonna stay on base and be limited to 3.2 beer…NOT.
And the commands are “cool” to it because they don’t want to deal with the shitbags who’ll abuse it, because it’s so much easier to keep it away from everyone.
I remember being 18, circa 1985, living in the barracks with beer machines, and going to Friday lunch at the enlisted club with strippers and beer, then back to work. No one checked IDs on post, and I don’t recall discipline problems.
Now, with a lot more age and rank, I fly from Atlanta to Afghanistan, and, as soon as I show up at the airport, I’m under GO #1, so no drinking. We stop off either in Ireland or Germany for crew change, an no drinking. We get to Kabul to the US base almost across the street from the NATO base and no drinking (but the US soldiers assigned to NATO across the street are hitting the 2 beer limit every night). Go to my FOB, shared with French, Romanians, and Mongolians (don’t ask) where they are hitting the wine and vodka every night, and we can’t drink. I also saw more alcohol related NJPs there than I did back in the old days, because an alcohol NJP was predicated on possession, not actions after drinking.
I remember being in Bosnia when the Marines took back the embassy in Afghanistan. The Marines each got a beer from the embassy bar. I hadn’t heard a shot fired and were in little danger, but we were under GO #1, so nothing for us. The same GO #1 mentality has crept into the senior leader’s minds, hence the lack of support from them. It has all become a CYA game at this point.
“I’m trying to remember the last time any of my commanders were on the side of the troops in regards to morale and welfare…”
Marine Corps Ball, 2004. My platoon commander told us in the libo brief “You’re all old enough to drink this weekend.” Sure enough, we drank the venue dry. SgtMaj came to the platoon commander midway through the ball and says
“Sir, it looks like some of your Marines are drinking underage.”
Plt. Commander: “Sorry Sgt.Major, I don’t have an Alpha roster on me.”
SgtMaj: “… Good to go.”
Yep, CYA was the name of the game for our highers in Iraq as well. Saw quite a bit of stuff bought on the local market behind Battalion’s back though, and they didn’t try over hard to interfere.
Worst of it here at home was when we had a Mormon Church elder as a Company Commander. We played hell keeping things away from his prying eyes, but usually managed to do so quietly. NCO’s took care of their troops and policed the ranks like they’re supposed to.
I’m with Tim in #8, if you’re not responsible enough to drink at 18, you damned well shouldn’t be allowed to vote.
And I do believe that if you’re old enough to shoulder the responsibility for the nation’s safety, you should be allowed to drink.
18 and 19 year olds might be young, high-spirited, and inexperienced, but they’re NOT stupid. If they can be taught to handle a weapon, they can be taught to handle drinking. If a young person is old enough to defend their country and put their lives on the line, they’re old enough to drink. Just like with their weapons, they can be taught to be responsible when they drink and they can learn and be shown the consequences of being irresponsible.
When you train horses, the rule is CONSISTENCY and COMMON SENSE. I can’t see why this wouldn’t work here, too.
If you get the Senior Non-Coms in on it, shouldn’t be a problem. Sure you’ll have a few black outs but trust me, YOU’LL REMEMBER doing a GI party when you’re hung over.
#4 General Order #1 was a bitch. In 05 when i was in Shannon, on the way home, PAARNG was on another flight, and those dudes drank all the guinness and killians they could with the AD troops staring at them (CSM, BC, CO, and 1SG all reminding them that they were *still* under Gen Order #1 despite being in IRELAND on the way to Hawaii). Worse still, you know the Aussies had no suck orders? had to “guard” them the whole while they drank shitty beer offering me some. . . I feel your pain Sig.
I got out of the marines in 08, i remember all the guys that lived in the barracks who were underage drinking anyway, but most of them did it responsibly and stayed in their rooms. thats proof to me that age shouldn’t matter. plus they are gonna do it neway. you cant let a few idiots ruin it for everyone i guess is my point.
I like how you guys think you have the authority to decide which rules are stupid and which ones must be enforced to the letter of the law.
“I like how you guys think you have the authority to decide which rules are stupid and which ones must be enforced to the letter of the law. -ObamaGirl2012”
I like how your Hero likes to do the same…
@#16 Obamagirl:
Yur getting the hang of it! Keep it up!
Uh, OG? Project much? Nobody said they didn’t follow it, just that they thought it was bullshit. You know, maturity, judgement, shit like that–things you seem to be sadly lacking.
And yes, as a citizen, I get to say which laws are fucking stupid, and cast my vote for officials who share that view and will work to change said fucking stupid laws or eliminate them entirely. Kinda how our system of government works, or did you fail to grasp that concept?
Oh wait, what am I saying…of course you failed to grasp it. Then again, as has been stated, you support an administration that simply says, “Fuck the rules” whenever it suits their agenda.
The only problem I have with 18-year olds drinking:
They know way loads more than I do now, or ever will. Just ask ’em and they’ll tell ya.
They are invincible. The irony of living through a firefight and dying in a one-car crash escapes them.
Having been on the Dark Side, I get the concern for safety and whatnot. I also agree with the argument of old enough.
Commanders should re-establish Courtesy Patrols. NCOs, don’t let the Supermen blow the privilige of going off post.
ObamaGirl2012 – there ya go!