This bit of news may or may not gladden the hearts of Marines everywhere; The ammo you all carry and load is destined to become lighter, thanks to modern technology.
For example:
One of the first polymer case ammunition rounds for wide production in the Marine Corps will be for its heavy duty machine gun, the venerable M2 .50 caliber Browning Machine Gun.
The Marine Corps recently announced its intent to sole source a company to build polymer casings for .50 caliber ammunition, the largest direct fire, bullet projectile in the ground combat arsenal and a mainstay of machine gunning for nearly a century. – Article.
According to the article, the lightening agent will be a polymer casing instead of brass, which does eliminated a considerable load of gross weight.
Per the following article from a year ago, when this was proposed, it was a proposal to take up to 20 pounds off the weight of a belt of .50 cal ammo.
However, the one thing they don’t tell you is that you’ll just be carrying more. Ammo. Instead of 100 rounds in a box, you’ll get 150. The gross weight will be the same, but you’ll have more volume to drag with you. I believe that there are advantages and disadvantages to this idea, and the munitions themselves are being tested, but polymer? Isn’t that PLASTIC?????
In addition, a 5.56mm round is under development and testing for urban warfare for Marines.
It’s nice to see our tax dollars at work. I’m quite sure that before long, Marines will be wearing handguns that a Skywalker could envy, a little something made out of bucky paper and lined with bucky beads to keep the light bullets coherent. Won’t weigh a thing, but until the battery life is extended and improved, they’ll still have to use heavy duty stationary autofire .65 cal machine guns to fight off those giant drooling ants in the tunnels.
But, really… PLASTIC????
Plastics? What is this HERESY?
Plastic cased ammo is nothing new but it has not really worked all that great in the past. But I can see with 25 years of development that this could finally work. Will be interested in seeing how the .50 BMG does. If it can work in a Browning MA DUECE it should be able to scale to the 5.56 and 7.62 NATO. We live in interesting times.
The manufacturer has spent a lot on advertising in several gun magazines of late. And the USMC has been looking-seriously looking at being able to bring “light” back into “light infantry.” In the end I expect Grunts will just end up humping more rounds…Oo-Rah!
DOUG out
Now that the gear is so much lighter, the men can carry heavier loads!
One hundred twenty pounds of ultralight gear!
Now if the planners had to hump the rucks all day, that weight curve would bend decidedly downwards.
Having seen what the powder load of a single round of .50 can do to a M2 when the barrel is not installed correctly by one of my fellow Infantrymen (hint, the feed tray was buckled up and the weapon was written off) I gotta wonder what fantastic plastic they could come up with to handle that, and would it still be cheaper than brass?
This! Headspace and timing is critical. Anyone that’s seen a case failure firsthand may want to say something to TPTB.
Might as well not wear eyepro, Ma Duece being fed plastic will take your face.
As I learned as a mechanized infantryman, if head space or timing on the Ma-Deuce is not correct, one has a large single shot rifle instead of a HMG.
Screw the barrel all the way in then back off two clicks, crank the bolt handle back just a bit and use the go/no-go gauge.
Do I still have that right? It’s been a few decades.
sounds right for head space, but I think the last time I did it might have been….2002 at EIB. I’m pretty sure I could still take a M2 all the way apart and put it back together no problem, but don’t ask me to set head space and timing.
Just so you know, the M2A1 has eliminated the need to headspace and time a new barrel.
Pull back slightly on the bolt handle, slap it in, 1/2 turn rotation into the J-lock, load fresh belt, rack the bolt, and let loose the lovely hell from the highly improved John Browning’s genius.
Adjustable headspace and timing was to allow reliable use of ammo that varied quite a bit.
Now that our ammo is so consistent, the adjustability of the weapon is a liability. Glad to hear they fixed this, as folks were saying so in the mid eighties.
Well, the cartridge case is supposed to contain the propellant and projectile, and obturate to seal propellant gas in the barrel. No reason why a polymer case can’t do that. Sure won’t look and sound the same, and eventually would mean the death of the reloading industry.
“death of the reloading industry”
So, no more old man brass goblins at the range? I’m all for that.
Most positive developments and innovative cartridges of the last century or so came from those ‘old man brass goblins’, my friend.
“Sure won’t look and sound the same, and eventually would mean the death of the reloading industry.”
That is not a good thing.
That is because the military doesn’t care about the ability to reload cartridge cases. Once fired cases are just trash to our military. But think of the waste, plus one cannot use all that evil oil to make evil plastic cartridge cases under the “Green New Deal.” So, after the Progs have full control, they will put an end to this development project. Plus, the military will need to return to renewables, like arrows and swords, while mounted on horses. Oh wait, what about equine flatulence; so no horses. Maybe they will be mounted on bicycles with some type of non-rubber tire (which require petro products).
At Ft. Benning we used to occasionally get small crowds of civilians following us during exercises to police up all the brass from the blanks we fired. Some were very, uh, competitive.
It’s all fun and games until you start adding ammo to your load. The woman who was an advocate for females in the infantry and postulated that packs over 100lbs were a myth never carried one with ammo in it.
Exactly, weighed myself with full pack, weapon, and gear for a five day LRRP mission in the RVN. Even without a 100 round belt of M-60 ammo carried by at least three of the six man LRRP team, I was carrying a 115 pound load. Also, I was only carrying about 300 rounds of 7.62x39mm ammo for my AK-47, instead of the standard ammo load of about 550 rounds of 5.56 ammo carried by those armed with XM177 Car’s or M-16. Further, we wore no helmets or body armor, which adds at least 35 lbs. to the soldier’s basic load.
I always felt sorry for the poor SOB who had to carry the 90 mm. RR. or mortar bipod. Aside from the weight, there is just no way to carry it comfortably on those long hikes. Not to mention the vines, bamboo, etc. Oy Vey! Many guys wore towels around their necks for the padding. Had one Co. commander who made us carry M-60 ammo in the can instead of Pancho Villa style. I saw he had a good point, but after a couple of miles it got painful. Good news is that I can still open jars pretty easily.
A few years later I played Sousaphone (NOT Tuba!) in a marching band. Brought back memories.
I guess the term “hot brass” will be replaced with “melted plastic”.
Hoppes solvent is gonna make a mess.
“Uh, bro, your weapon’s on fire. Is it supposed to do that?”
Bad things happen to heretics who mess with the sacred designs of Saint John Moses Browning. A pox upon their houses!
Howitzer be his name. If God wanted armaments to be made of plastic, He would’ve commanded His servant Saint John Moses to invent it!
^THIS^ & ^THAT^ and the other things discussed above!
Don’t be glocking around with the Saintly Designs! It’s not broke, it doesn’t need fixin’.
Follow the money. Some son in law of some puzzle palace procurement weenie just got hired on as a design engineer. Millions will be spent, it will be determined not to work and the brass cartridge will remain King in the Battle and the FIRST choice of Ma Deuces everywhere.
Some one go straighten up JMB’s (Howitzer be his name) headstone. All this spinning in his grave has knocked it caddy whompus.
Just wait until the weapon is nice and hot and they leave a round in the chamber for awhile after cease fire. Gonna be interesting.
Is it gonna cook off, or just kinda ooze out?
Open bolt guns do not leave a round in the chamber unless there is a stoppage.
And stoppages never happen….
In the past, I use to shoot registered trap with a 12 ga. over & under….still shoot some trap but a bit more sporting clays these days.
After firing 300-400 rounds some days, there would be an amount of plastic residue in the chambers & barrels which has to be cleaned out with a solvent.
Gotta wonder, since the trap gun never gets near the barrel heat of a Ma Deuce, how much plastic residue would be in the chamber/barrel after a belt or two.
Words that were driven into my brain during M2 training: “Headspace and Timing” (smile)
The 7.62X51 is also being replace in light machine guns with the 6.5C round. I am in favor of this due to the better ballistics of the 6.5C.
IF we are lucky there might tons of surplus ammo in a few years.
Talk about full circle! 6.5mm was the choice for many first generation smokeless cartridges! 6.5 MS, Carcano, Arisaka, Swede Mauser.
This sounds like the kind of thing we’d spend hundreds of millions developing and discover ten minutes after deploying to an operational environment that it doesn’t work as well.
All y’all seem to think the jarheads are going to be swapping out brass for Tupperware. What’s more accurate is that the company likely getting a pending Marine contract has apparently been involved in advanced materials science for stuff used in the military and aerospace for a long time. The new ammunition is also not exactly a radical concept; it’s designed to be used in existing weapons such as the M2.
Here’s a brief piece about it along with a photo. Notice that the “polymer” composite, which could be partly advanced carbon fiber or ceramic, is only used in the main body of the .50 cal cartridge while the neck and base remain brass:
http://portairspace.com/news/article/mac-llc-develops-lightweight-ammo
What also makes this story interesting is that usually ammo types tend to be shared across the services. 5.56 ball, for example, is likely to remain the same whether it’s in an Army M4 or an Air Force M16. In this case, what’s going on is that while the Marines are opting to use an advanced lightweight ammo in the guns already in inventory, the Army is concurrently developing similar lightweight ammo that will likely require all new weapons:
https://investor.textron.com/news/news-releases/press-release-details/2019/Textron-Systems-Delivers-Next-Generation-Squad-Weapon-Technology-Demonstrator/default.aspx
https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/true-velocitys-new-polymer-cased-ammunition/247607
True Velocity out of Texas is leading the way with this. Drawback for us Reloaders is we won’t be able to reuse it.
The .50BMG looks like a vape
A problem yet to be overcome:
The substantial mass of brass in a shell casing absorbs a significant amount of heat, and very quickly.
This means that upon ejection, the brass extracts small but significant heat from the weapon, that would otherwise add to heat buildup. It is small, but non-trivial. In a weapon prone to overheating, it adds up.
Also, that mass of brass soaks up heat from a hot chamber, that would otherwise directly heat the propellant. This makes a small but noticeable reduction in the potential for a cook-off.
Also, cartridge grade brass is short-term mechanically tolerant of heat that will make the steel barrel glow.
I believe they have come up with relatively scorch-proof plastics that are at least kind-of tolerant of overheated barrels, but nothing as good as brass or aluminum. Yet.
The “heat in”/cookoff issue may potentially be solved by a plastic that is a good insulator, assuming it is also very strong and scorch resistant.
Heat capacity for extracting heat? Unlikely to ever be solved in the casing. Mass is key to this one. A better heat-shedding weapon design solves this one.
Anyone remember the “Activ” brand shotshells? (80s to 90s) Almost-all-plastic shell with a metal disk imbedded in the base to improve reliability. Reloadable, and fairly durable. But shotguns work at fairly low pressures and temperatures, for the most part. The firm that bought the brand discontinued them. I still see them turn up on rare occasions at Cowboy shoots and Trap ranges.
As I understand it, that’s why caseless-ammo weapons like the G-11 suck. They leave all the heat and all the fouling inside. Plus the issues with the G-11’s ammo, like the propellant cracking and leaving little crumbs of low-yield explosive all over the rifle’s rapidly-heating innards, and the issues with cycling a round that’s lost a significant portion of its propellant.
How about high altitude use.
Is there going to be a case expansion issue?
My B-17 Armorer/Gunner dad is asking from the grave.