Navy Chief Cryptologic Technician (Interpretive) Shannon M. Kent. U.S. NAVY
Apologize for the late posting- I do try to post up these guest links as quickly as I can. Then this thing called ‘life’ comes up and my attention is directed elsewhere for more mundane tasks that put food on the table and a roof overhead.
Better late than never. AnotherPat us sent this link about the ramifications of that cowardly attack in the supposedly safe Syrian city of Manbij, that took the lives of nine civilians and five US service members. Chief Cryptologic Technician (I) Shannon Mary Kent was among the deceased.
Now her family is questioning the regulation that sent her to the Middle East in the first place. The article:
By CLAUDIA GRISALES
WASHINGTON — Navy Chief Petty Officer Shannon Mary Kent wasn’t supposed to be in Syria.Last year, the 35-year-old mother of two was slated to attend a clinical psychology doctoral program near Walter Reed National Military Medical Center in Bethesda, Md.
But an obscure Navy rule and a previous bout of cancer derailed those plans and led to her fifth combat deployment instead. She was killed less than two months later.
Now, her family wants to finish the fight started by Kent to undo the regulation.
“The regulation still hasn’t been fixed and that’s something we’re working on now,” said Joe Kent, 38, her husband and father to their two children. “We’d like to change it in her honor.”
Shannon Kent, along with 18 others, including another U.S. servicemember, a Defense Intelligence Agency civilian and a Defense Department contractor, were killed Jan. 16 by a suicide bomber at a restaurant in the Syrian city of Manbij. She was the first female U.S. servicemember killed in Syria since the U.S.-led coalition’s campaign against Islamic State began there in late 2014.
Kent was part of a small, secretive cryptologic intelligence community. She was based out of Fort Meade, Md., and part of the Navy’s Cryptologic Warfare Activity 66, a unit within Cryptologic Warfare Group 6 that focuses on national, strategic and tactical level intelligence, military officials have said.
“She was doing intelligence legwork. They most certainly were not going out to lunch,” Joe Kent, a retired Green Beret warrant officer, said of his wife’s last moments. “They wanted to run down every last bit of ISIS.”
Kent was due to return to the United States by April. She had hoped to attend Officer Development School in June, followed by her postponed academic plans as part of her commissioning program in August.
Last year, the Navy essentially disqualified Kent from pursuing her doctoral studies because she previously had thyroid cancer.
The rest of the article may be found here: Stars and Stripes
I know, ‘Needs of the Navy’ come first. But perhaps those needs aren’t really being met by archaic regulations that are in serious need of updating.
Fair wind as following seas, Chief Kent.
Thanks, AP. Told you I’d get to it; didn’t even need that elbow jab.
The Manual of the Medical Department (MANMED) sets the rules for physical standards in many situations including commissioning. Medical/Surgical/Psychiatric History are among those criterion and differ situation to situation. There are a lot of standards in there that would make SJWs shit themselves.
I don’t have enough info here to know whether the application of standards was correctly or incorrectly applied. Many standards are however routinely waiverable, some are not. For a candidate’s dive physical for example, vision standards are non waiverable. Again many things that don’t disqualify you for continued serve in your current occupation, can disqualify you from moving into something else.
Just don’t know in this case precisely why she was NPQ’d.
From the other story I read (Reuters) it seemed that she was denied permission to attend the Intern part of her Doctoral program at Bethesda because of having had cancer (whether considered cured, in remission or not). However, this could be waved for her to go to a war zone and get blown up doing her mission.
Well, everything we read here/there is an opinion. A filtered opinion at that. Everything we assume is also just that.
Without the SF88/93 at the minimum, no one here knows why the determination was made. Even then it is likely (IME) the selection board made a final determination, which could be why no mention of a waiver is apparent.
No one is guaranteed a commission or program acceptance.
She may have in reality been denied at any number of stages in the process. These programs tend to be competitive and limited in number in any given fiscal year.
I’ve seen plenty of people that were completely qualified still not get acceptance to any number of programs over my time on active duty.
Minimum requirements are just that and many candidates submit packages with a conspicuous excess above the minimum.
I can’t judge her or the process without facts. Though my limbic system wants to say this fukkity fukking sukks.
“However, this could be waved for her to go to a war zone and get blown up doing her mission.”
Waivers are a formal process…I see no evidence she was formally waivered to continue to do her job. Her current evaluation did not find disqualification for that job under the MANMED.
Here’s another distasteful reality regarding physical qualifications and acceptance:
The Navy already invested in her in her current position. The Navy benefits from letting her continue to do that job.
The Navy in selecting her(or anybody) for a graduate program initially gains nothing. It is pure investment with the hope that the investment will be repaid over time.
That is one of the reasons the standards are different in different situations.
” It is pure investment with the hope that the investment will be repaid over time”
Exactly, and people called ‘actuaries’ make a good living calculating the risks involved. Those are the people who calculate insurance premiums, etc. by analyzing and correlating reams of statistics. Assuming the regulation was based on sound actuarial science Ms. Kent had no legitimate argument. She had no entitlement to a commission or taxpayer funded education, merely an opportunity to apply for such IF she met the qualifications.
This issue comes up every year in every commissioning program. Service member A is unable to commission because of medical condition X, but is permitted to stay in service at their current MOS with medical condition X.
It’s bureaucratic idiocy. Once a service member get in the door and has been wearing the uniform and is medically good to go for continued service, there should not be a second door for commissioning.
Forgive me for all this may offend and by no means do I intend to disparage the fallen, but WTF were they doing in a civilian café in Syria of all places? WTF was command thinking. Don’t we ever learn anything from previous conflicts. When I was serving in Republic de Panama, I believe someone threw a bomb into a café in Honduras where off duty Air Force types were partying. In Munich years earlier a bomb into a GI frequented disco. Given our experiences with IED’s in that part of the world and how our people stand out, WTF.
This stuff is basic SAEDA stuff. don’t be a target in the open. Stick with the Green Beans on base.
RIP
They were collecting in a very dangerous place.
The Chief was listening.
Not unusual.
I want to see the CRM Risk Assessment for that mission.
I somehow doubt the risk was worth the potential gains.
And what was risk residue after applying controls?
Catastrophic frequently or catastrophic likely?
I don’t disagree.
I worked with CT’s and supported Spec War and Ops.
It is all dangerous and risks are always high.
All I know is, it is not unusual for a team to be out in the community mixing with the enemy to gather intelligence.
Happens 24/7.
But does it happen the same way in the same place every time? And what do you mean by “mixing with the enemy”?
Club Manager, sometimes it is necessary to track the bad guys where they hang out (in public) in order to follow them to a less public place… and kill them. Soldeir in an active war zone don’t go “have lunch” in town. This is outside the wire work, and everything they do requires a risk assessment…sometimes other people you don’t know about have other ideas.
RIP Chief Kent we will carry on your mission
At least one source claims they were regular CUSTOMERS of the cafe. It was only a matter of time.
https://www.businessinsider.com/us-troops-at-syrian-restaurant-suicide-bomber-manbij-2019-1
They were collecting in a public place, where everybody noticed who talked to them? Kind of risky for the providers, yes? I may be paranoid, but I know if I were a Syrian in that area I would not wish to be seen having a conversation with intelligence agents of the Infidel Crusaders.
They were part of a special purpose team and were almost certainly doing their job correctly.
There are special operation and special purpose elements that don’t have a “cool” reputation because nobody outside the community has ever heard of them.
Though they do draw some of their folks from some of the more well known organizations.
If my memory serves me right I believe your referring to the La Belle Disco Club in Berlin. I was in processing in the Brigade when I got notified that one of my soldiers was a casualty. Had not even gotten a chance to meet any of my soldiers.
But I do understand the point your trying to make.
However, there have been times in my career where mission requirements over ruled the norm. Part of the Risk Assessment Validation….
“They most certainly were not going out to lunch,” Joe Kent, a retired Green Beret warrant officer, said of his wife’s last moments”
Regulation argument aside, I was missing that huge piece of info not mentioned in early reports. Rest in peace ma’am.
Others differ’
“The two-story restaurant, which reportedly served foods like grilled chicken, fries, and shawarma sandwiches, had a number of regular US troops visit several times a week. Troops would stop and order take-out sandwiches or park their vehicles in front of the establishment to dine-in, according to local residents in the report…
…The accounts described by locals stands in stark contrast to the military’s advice for troops who deploy into active warzones.”
https://www.businessinsider.com/us-troops-at-syrian-restaurant-suicide-bomber-manbij-2019-1
Part of me wants to scream that this wife and mother of two little ones is no longer. And then I remember that there is no draft and if there was it didn’t include women. In other words, women put themselves in these dangerous situations, knowing that that they could leave their children motherless. And then I just shake my head. Something is amiss, isn’t it? Or is it just paternalism and sexism on my part?
Your heart is in the right place. Brain, too.
This is the price of the social experiment called “women in uniform, deployed”.
“Ladies, Free a Man to Fight”
Has morphed into
“Ladies, Fix Bayonets!”
This doesn’t end well. Ever.
And it is intersected with “war, absent clear victory conditions, multi-generational”
Syria. Barbarous Shithole, one each.
That line of reasoning doesn’t make sense because it could just as easily apply to fathers. Losing a Dad doesn’t hurt children any less, and cheapens the essential role they have as a parent.
Were you ever part of the American culture and tradition that esteemed the fairer sex, that regarded men as the fighters and the providers, that saw Moms as special, crossing family lines in respect and admiration? The roles of women have changed. I get that. I am a dinosaur. I get that, too. But don’t tell me what I wrote doesn’t make sense, Say “It doesn’t make sense to me.”
No, it just doesn’t make sense. Losing a Dad is no less devastating than losing a Mom. Gender roles don’t change that.
Mathematically, it makes no difference. Emotionally, I believe the difference is huge.
Respectfully got to disagree with you Eo. Gotta go with 2/17 and SFC D all the way on this one.
FIRST we are old school dinosaurs that were brought up to respect, honor, cherish, and protect our women.
Have you lost a parent? I’ve lost both, Papa in ’63 when I was 10. Hurt? Damn Skippy. Mama had 5 of us and confirmed 5 days after his death that baby sister was due in 8 months. I have often wondered how our lives would have been different if we had a father growing up.
We lost Mama on 4 Feb 81. Ripped my heart out, even though we knew it was coming. She was only 51. I was not quite 28 yet, called myself a grown man, had served my country, was contributing to society. It still hurts. There is a major difference between the losses. In most cases, the only woman that will ever love a man unconditionally is his Mama. Not all, but most. These young men who have just lost their Mother will never know what they are going to miss, because of their youth. In that respect, you may could say they are lucky. The tragic flip side is they will never know that unconditional love.
This is just my opinion.
I appreciate your perspective, but I have to disagree. Having no father present has been shown to be incredibly damaging in its own right. I also don’t see how a Dad would not be able to offer unconditional love to their kids. Dads are not a lesser parent than Moms.
My dad was a useless fart who really didn’t offer much of anything to his children. We were better off when he left. And…The brutal (and cowardly) stepfather that followed wasn’t any better. And both of them bragged of their exploits that they “heroically performed” during WWII. So much for the “Greatest Generation;” the same generation who voted an ignorant Socialist FDR into office as President four times.
As I was just reminded, no one cries out in pain, in blood, in their final moments, for Dad.
It’s part of our culture, and not just an archaic throwback to the time of the dinosaurs present.
We revere motherhood because despite the arguments and surgeries of the SJWs and trans-crowd, it is mom who grows the baby. That fact creates a bond like no other in our collective psyche, even if it is not true in individual experience.
“incredibly damaging”
How do you differentiate “incredibly” from “seriously”, “moderately”, or just plain “damaging”?
Does “incredible” damage render someone incredibly non-functional, or would that be “super-double-incredible damage”? Is “stupendous” damage worse than “incredible” damage?
Inquiring minds want to know.
My definition is based on the peer reviewed research about the issues kids face when they don’t have a father in their lives.
I think everyone would agree that kids without fathers face issues. Claiming they are necessarily “incredibly damaging” is quite a stretch. I doubt you will find that claim in any reputable peer reviewed research.
Perhaps in today’s neutered culture you may be correct. In traditional cultures world wide even small children have, for millenia, been exposed to the idea that daddy may not come home from work, whereas mommy will always be there to care for them. That kind of preparation lessens the shock.
I disagree. Long term research, including twin studies, show almost identical rates of negative consequences regardless of the gender of the parent who dies. Preparation doesn’t make it any less traumatic regardless of whether it’s Mom or Dad who dies.
Show me.
Why is SHE more valuable than anyone else? NO reason. She’s a kick ass female doing her job where her job NEEDS to be done. I’m sorry for her family’s loss but it happens. Nothing needs be changed.
An absurd rule needs to be changed. that says “fit for combat” isn’t “fit for college”
if she was fit enough to be running around in Syria, where it is a hot running mess, in what way is a typical college campus more life-challenging?
Perhaps the actuaries determined that the return on the Navy’s (taxpayer’s) investment in a cancer patient’s future would be less than the return on others with a lesser known risk. It’s a competitive program, so the winners are the ones most likely to contribute to the Navy in the future. Present fitness for duty is irrelevant.
It may be cold, but “That’s the biz, sweetheart”.
Agree with 11-B Mailclerk. What needs to change is the idea accolades and prizes need to be stripped of you because you fought and won against cancer. This has very little to do with whether she was fit to go to a war zone, only that the two should be equal!
So why couldn’t this job be done in the states?
Was this really a “boots on the ground” in Syria needed position?
Yes. I had to babysit S2 intel types in many of my missions.
Depends on the OBJ and operational environment.
Cause sometimes you need to get dirty to get the information you need OR some OTHER person does it for you. Why would some OTHER ‘person’ deserve to go into harms way instead of her? What’s SO special about her?
You CAN’T have it all ways at one time.
Yes. If you want it done right, you send the best.
Last time I checked, you can’t pick up a spoken conversation from Space. For that matter it is real hard to pick up WiFi signals from within the atmosphere. If you want to kill the right bad guy, you sometimes have to be with the trigger puller…or be the trigger puller!
Every time I see someone fighting a deployment, I start to get angry, with that deep anger I reserve only for those that expect the rest of us to pick up the slack.
Don’t want to deploy? Want to a get a doctorate degree?
GET OUT OF THE FUCKING MILITARY
She went. WTF are you snorting?
Lots of officers go get degrees on “company time”. It’s part of the process.
The gripe is, she was fit enough to deploy to a combat Shithole, but not to a college campus.
Damn, you can be irritating. But you already knew that.
Most of us would probably agree with your sentiment in general, but it has absolutely nothing to do with this case.
Slow indeed
She already had a couple of tours in the sandbox under her belt. The Navy really screwed the pooch on this one. Her situation screamed for a waiver. I would have given it to her in a heartbeat.
As an Arabic linguist, I’m sure she had been used and abused for years and did a damn good job to boot. Her anchors and only one star on her GCM tell me that. She deserved the college tour.
Rest in peace shipmate.
Reading between the lines, the doctorate program in Bethesda she was trying to get in to would have been at USUHS. It is a VERY competitive program, and there is a lot more that goes into fitness for duty for that program. There is a lot of information not included here, and I don’t know that I understand what this policy is that prevented her from getting in. But, I do understand the grief and anger of the family over the awareness that had she been accepted to the program, she would be alive today.
I’m not minimizing anyone’s argument, experience or opinion, just offering another view.
Well, I think there are two elements to this.
First and foremost, when you accept a commission you are actually discharged from the enlisted force. This means you have to meet the requirements for appointment as a commissioned offer. These will be more stringent than retention requirements, where a local commander, based on the advice of your physician, can assess you as capable of fulfilling your duties. This would have required a waiver from the commander that runs the USUHS program she was applying for. Not sure how many people apply, but my guess is they get way more highly qualified applicants than they can accept, and an easy (but not the best way) to do a quick cut is to eliminate anyone who needs a waiver.
Second, just looking at her background, she was pretty clearly a valuable asset in the high level Intel community. They may not have been willing to release her or endorse her waiver applications.
Most likely, a call from the right Admiral to the right Colonel/Captain, with a belligerent Master Chief/Command Sergeant Major standing on his desk would have made this happen.
Good commanders recognize when it is time for their troops to move on so they can make a wider and more impactful contribution to the force as a whole in a different capacity, even if it means that the unit will lose a great asset.
Good commanders…
We used to call that ‘good leadership’; now it is ‘Human Capital/Talent Management’.
The Japanese did this with their Naval Aviators in WWII. They had the best carrier pilots and best aircraft in the world at the time of Pearl harbor, then literally flew them into the ground with no relief for battle after battle, so the pilots recognized that they would fly until they died, all the while cutting back training for their new pilots.
The Americans, on the other hand, rotated veterans back to train the new generation, and as a result we were dominating the skies.
RedDevil may be correct, but the Reuters article I also read said she had been accepted into the program, but was prevented (by regulation) from attending the Internship due to her previous cancer experience… definitely need more facts in this one.
You are doing an outstanding job of posting things. This is one that I did not get the time to post either.
Thanks for all you do bro.
S/F
Thanks, Dave. Even a blind chipmunk…
“… along with 18 others, including another U.S. servicemember, a Defense Intelligence Agency civilian and a Defense Department contractor, were killed Jan. 16 by a suicide bomber at a restaurant in the Syrian city of Manbij.”
I don’t believe in coincidence, never have, and never will. Why were they in that restaurant in the first place, when it was a golden opportunity for a target bomber?
I do not believe there is any coincidence here, because of this strange regulation: not fit to get a commission, but fit enough to deploy to a combat zone?
“Joe Kent remains stunned at the Navy’s denial.
“It is pretty unbelievable she was considered physically fit to be deployable and … for a special operation in Syria, but not for a classroom to be a psychologist,” he said.”
The “expendable” mentality that comes out of this stinks to high heaven.
“In other words, women put themselves in these dangerous situations, knowing that that they could leave their children motherless.”
In SYRIA no less. I think you nailed it. Everyone is the business of going into these places know this. She volunteered to wear that uniform – and regs are regs.
Harry, you are missing the point. She never asked to get out of the deployment. No one is disputing that she was asked to deploy and did (where she paid the ultimate sacrifice). What the issue is over, is why was she denied the internship prior to her deployment which she then would not have been there to get blown up (and likely with a less experienced Crypto Linguist, the team might have passed on the oportunity and not been exposed).
Passed on what opportunity?
There was also a Syrian-born American on the probably routine patrol, so Kent’s personal language skills were not unique. And why “crypto” is even involved mystifies me, except that it may sound cooler.
https://www.stripes.com/news/us/arabic-interpreter-from-atlanta-among-19-killed-in-suicide-bombing-in-syria-1.565163
I can see where the Navy is coming from in this, but this is a regulation that needs changing. If she’s fit enough to remain in the service, she should be fit enough to commission. Otherwise they’re just driving out people like her that want to remain in and serve. If she’d come back from this deployment, I could see her finishing her 20 and immediately getting out instead of getting commissioned and serving as a doc for another 10+ years.
I dunno about that… I expect my officers to attain and maintain higher standards than the enlisted do. We push the average officer harder and give them more responsibility, don’t we? There is no guarantee she would have even made it through the doctoral program? And it was a stretch to begin with… it is almost totally unrelated to her
CT MOS, unless EW now encompasses psyops.
A few facts that jumped out from the article:
1) She was a CT.. I mourn one of our own, but typically that is very much a rear echelon job (or used to be.) It’s not like she was a SEAL or doorkicker.
2) Did anyone happen to see the phrase “supposedly safe city”? Sems to me that is exactly the kind of place a CT would be sent, not the front lines. (And, bluntly, even in some bad areas the BS is localized to certain areas… I have lived through IRA bombing blitzes (London) and drug wars (El Paso/Juarez) and if you were across town, you stayed there and no worries.)
3) Notice no one says this was an active intel gathering lunch but her husband. Sounds more to me like ‘hey, let’s go out to lunch today’ and they had the bad luck to be among 50 other casualties.
I’m an old fart and out ofr over 30 years, true – but somehow this seems more like wrong/place/wrong time than anything else. I am sure the EW community will miss her, as well as her family… but I do not see her as some special martyr for doing the job she signed up for.
The CT community has changed since 9/11. They have created units that work with every OGA you can think of, and are a big part of NSW and yes Direct combat Support. I believe there have been five CT types that have died while supporting SEAL teams. EW is not the only thing, they work on collections and deciphering things from computer soft wear to Cell phones things like that and that’s why they go out in the field and yes on OPS.
She was part of a new formed ground Joint Intel spook unit and there are several now. She was also before to this assigned with NSW and other NECC Intel units that work on the ground. They were doing a DIA mission, and meeting with a source.
“The servicemembers were at a restaurant near a crowded market for a meeting with local leaders, U.S. Central Command said after the attack”
https://www.stripes.com/news/middle-east/green-beret-two-language-specialists-seal-turned-dia-civilian-among-dead-in-isis-claimed-syria-bombing-1.565006
“A two-story restaurant on a crowded downtown street, the Palace of Princes served meat grilled over charcoal, rotisserie chicken, shawarma and other dishes that made it a favorite stop for American soldiers on patrol.
Sometimes they would drop in to get sandwiches to go before rumbling back to their bases outside of town, residents said. Other times, they would park their armored vehicles in front and get a table.
If the Americans gave any thought to the cardinal importance of varying one’s routines in a war zone to make it harder for enemies to plan attacks, it was not reflected in their eating habits.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/17/world/middleeast/syria-bombing-manbij-attack.html
Sounds to me like it was just a matter of time before the place was bombed. Possibly a shortage of ISIS suicide-bombers.
This whole deal is just too bad, and so sad on many levels. Yes, she knew the job was dangerous when she took it, pilgrim. However the Daddy of the Baby Girl in me comes out. CPO Kent is a little younger than my daughter. Also, the Grandfather of two Motherless Grandchildren.
She was there to listen? How much usable intel can you hear in a noisy crowded cafe? I guess some of that is SOP these days. Did anyone know they were going to be there? Were they made by the bad guys and then became a target of opportunity? It should be well known by now that our enemies don’t mind collateral damage when they take out a high value individual. Did higher screw up the mission by not having/or not allocating enough resources to handle the mission? Get us the f*%& out of there.
Her 5th deployment. That tells me that there is not enough of that MOS skill for mission requirements. A failure of higher right there. We’ve been dealing with Arabic enemies for a long time now. Why a shortage of speakers/interpreters?
Reg or not, if the CPO was physically fit enough to deploy into a combat zone, she was damn sure fit enough to take a college course.
My prayers, again, for God’s Peace to be unto the Family.
It’s never too late to post AW1Ed, we’ll read ’em when they show. More thanks to AnotherPat and keep the hits a’coming. Special post script to AP: (rtr goarmybeatnavy how’boutthemdawgs)
5/77, thanks. I took the liberty of changing your ‘PO’ to ‘CPO’ in Navyspeak it makes a rather large difference. No harm no foul on your part. Think that all Chiefs are Petty Officers, but not all Petty Officers are Chiefs.
I really need to get on that Navy-Nautically Challenged translation post AP wants me to do.
Tanks Mate, I thought I had not fat fingered that and punched post before a proper proof read. Soon as I re-read the posted post, I said damn, where’s that edit button the boys are always screaming for. I, like many others, could use a program manual on Navy Ranks, we look forward to a cheat sheet.
You Boys and Girls keep up the good work. You really don’t know how much it is appreciated. nsnr
She was probably one of the very few with the experience and training to do what she was doing. Think of the assessment and selection SF and Delta go through, and ask yourself what their intel counterparts must go through, and how many of them make it …
These guys were probably not there just hoping to overhear something, and it was probably
Far more than some mid level ISIS pipe swinger. The make up of the group had a lot of capability to go after a lot of collection targets. An SF Warrant, a SIGINTEr, a SEAL turned DIA, and a Syrian immigrant.
Think of it this way. When ST 6 killed bin Laden, there had been somebody watching that house for days, all alone in Pakistan, in a town with a heavy military and intel presence. Dangerous work, and if it had gone wrong all we would have heard was some weird story about an American killed in a car accident in Pakistan
Nailed it, this was not a “white” over the top leader engagement. They were doing collections, and trying to blend in, so not out in kit, and doing a presence patrol, as a regular unit. This was a DIA Mission, so a little more covert, not overt type,that most know or understand.
Not everyone has that sexy special SOF title, but there are jobs out there and Task Forces that have become Special Operations type and missions.
As for her five deployments in her 15 years is not unussaal for someone in that rate. This was her first deployment with this small spook command. She has been in other commands, Navy has Sea Shore rotations (usually 3-4 years at a time) and all those commands can be verry differnt from each other and Rating.She served with NSW (SEAL Teams) before this command and other NECC type Intel commands. So she was ganing the experiance in this type of ground Intel Collections that lead her to this new Navy Joint unit.
By the way this unit is a spook unit and they do Joint OPS with OGA’s like DIA, NSA, CIA and even State Depart stuff, not regular type Jobs for Military Intel as we know it.
The Syrian immigrant was a 27 year old woman who worked as a translator/cook for a contractor. No training.
Kent was a linguist. A very good one, evidently, but that’s it.
They probably stopped by for lunch, as so many other Americans did.
Try not to romanticize this.
I don’t think the issue was/is physical fitness. It’s probably the calculation of whether a cancer survivor has a better chance of providing the Navy a satisfactory return on its investment than someone who has never had cancer. I would bet that this program is not the only place that having had cancer raises red flags for future prospects. Ever think about all those questions insurance companies ask? I believe this is one of them.
Wherever the comments go and have gone, I just want to remind myself publicly that she was serving the nation in uniform when her life was taken on foreign soil in a hostile region. I hope that her children will grow in love for her and honor her by living the good and decent lives she wanted for them.
^word^
The tough thing that I see here is in relation to Afghanistan, while I was there in 2012, I wasn’t seeing intel types going outside the wire.
Intel weenies got to wear civilian clothes, grew beards, etc., because they might have to interact with the local populace. But, they didn’t leave the wire. Ever.
So in Afghanistan, when we were mostly dealing with IEDs while we traveled and not as much direct action, intel types sat comfortably behind the wire doing their shit, but in Syria where it’s even more difficult, they’re out and about like this. I don’t know all the particulars, but that seems odd. (Especially when my team and I were going outside the wire as often as possible, 3-4 times a week at least)
I’m quite sure the Navy Bureaucrats who aren’t effected either way by this kind of regulation will get around to changing it some year, or leave it to their replacement when they finally die or retire, which ever comes second.
I doubt they were the average intel weenies that needed babysitting.
She was a CPO crippie, on her 5th deployment, and one of her early deployment photos was taken in Balad, Iraq- only a few Navy folks there, and they weren’t the weenie type. She was killed along with an SF Warrant and a SEAL turned DIA civilian and a Syrian immigrant.
I wonder if the Balad burn pit caused her cancer?
I saw quite a few pukes taking pictures of themselves at the balad burn pit.
In the right angle, with the smoke behind you, it looks like you are outside the wire.
Then the was the EOD disposal pit, where some POG got himself killed trying to take a picture of a controlled explosion. No such thing in the Eye-of-the-Raq
I used to call it the Eternal Flame of Iraqi Freedom.
I call it a major reason my lungs don’t work so good anymore.
Yeah, I’ll have to remember that next time I engage with Army Intel weenies who want to talk like they’re badass.
“You guys sat on your ass behind the wire in civvies and beards. Meanwhile, a Navy intel-type was outside the wire (on land) doing intel-gathering.”
The regulation should be re-examined- the Nation lost a lot of potential when we lost her. I suspect that it has a lot to do with the fact that she would be discharged prior to accepting a commission, and therefore had to meet officer entrance standards, which are much stricter than enlisted retention standards.
As to why an ‘intel type’ was outside the wire, that’s where all the best intel is. Intel supports everything from the tactical to the National-Strategic, and it takes a wide range of capabilities to do it. Sometimes you have to use tactical methods like Low Level Voice Intercept teams and HUMINT collectors to support strategic missions- just like a Small team of SOF operators are a tactical unit executing a mission of national strategic importance. There are enough clues in the story to tell you this wasn’t the type of team that needed babysitting. As the husband said, CPO Cryptos aren’t often just out for an early lunch in a Syrian bistro with their DIA friends for fun.
As to why would a Mom choose to do this, I suppose it was for the same reason that most people with kids do it. My first deployment as a single 2LT and later as a single captain was a great adventure? Scared, sure, but more excited to be part of history. Different story as a married guy with 3 kids on deployments a few years later. Scared, sure, but the prospect of leaving a widow and orphans made everything much more difficult.
This is what makes our military special, though. Someone as smart as she was could damn sure have figured out a way to avoid a deployment and stay at Ft Meade with her Green Beret husband (another clue). Hell, she could have got pregnant again.
Instead, she deployed into harms way in the finest tradition of military service and at great credit to the US Navy, knowing full well that she may lose everything.
She was a US Navy Chief, and she had to lead from the front. She was an American, and her country asked her to go. Yes, she was a Mom, and she showed her kids what duty means and what freedom costs.
Well said, Red…
You are right.
Maybe i shouldn’t have said some of the things I said before….
………
Obviously from the “No Shit Sherlock” department at TAH…
You’re learning, Joe. And that’s good.
After reading the thread up to here, you win the argument, hands down.
Only one word I can use to close my comment.
Amen…..
I am deeply saddened by her loss, as I am by the loss of all of our folks over there.
However, I don’t see any press about thousands of others who had life ambitions put on hold to deploy and then died in harm’s way.
I have empathy for the family, but her family is not alone in this and will not be the last. The regulations, not being allowed to get her PhD, etc have nothing at all to do with this issue.
What I want to know is why someone so highly specialized in a particular (and under manned) field was used in this way at all.
The real scandal here is not the KIA aspect, or even the regulation aspect, but the casual waste of her unique and rare skill set and years of skill development.
The work she was doing does not usually require doctoral level skill sets at the tactical edge….
But, I’ve learned that to the brass we are mostly just names on a roster…..
(Just so you know, one reason this particular KIA is being showcased may be because at least one commenter knew her and her ethos. She was reported to be very highly thought of within that community.)
She and her husband were also pulling political strings, writing to John McCain and getting the two Md. Senators working on her behalf.
“We are deeply saddened by the loss of Chief Petty Officer Shannon Kent this past month,” Cardin said in a statement. “Chief Kent was an incredible leader who honorably served her country and the Navy. Ms. Kent worked with my office and Sen. Van Hollen’s office on an issue related to her eligibility to become a commissioned officer in the Navy.”
https://www.stripes.com/family-of-fallen-navy-linguist-fights-regulation-that-forced-her-deployment-to-syria-1.566601
It is pretty obvious that she was not doing routine linguist term/translation duties, and I doubt it was casual at all- whatever she was part of was much more than that.
It’s not obvious to me. Perhaps you could explain the obvious to us impaired individuals.
To me, having read and cited a number of articles for this particular thread, it seems just as likely that she attached herself to a routine patrol for a chance to get off base and get some decent food at a restaurant very popular with US troops. Not an unheard of event. After the event, it may have been embarrassing, particularly with the involvement of some Senators, to admit she had been out to lunch and not involved in some Rambo-crypto-PowerRanger type operation.
Well, the story is half about her working to get her PhD. She had cancer and that disqualified from her going to school to get her PhD, but that same disqualifier didn’t prevent her from deploying to a combat zone.
As if sitting in a classroom was more physically/mentally stressful than being in Syria and hanging with an SF team doing reconnaissance and intel collection.
We may be conflating things here. Not sure if she was blocked from attending because somebody just made a bad decision, or as someone brought up earlier it may only have been because the prior cancer would preclude her receiving a commission. The details we “know” don’t exactly make that clear. And it’s all moot at this point.
” She had cancer and that disqualified from her going to school”
No, that disqualified her from using that particular program to obtain a commission and have the Navy pay for her school. She was perfectly free to go on her own dime.
FFS.
She couldn’t go to a school/program the Navy offered because of her cancer, but her cancer wasn’t an issue with her going to combat.
The semantics that keep getting thrown around here are getting irritating.
Bottom line, a stupid regulation says she couldn’t go to a school for her PhD and/or commissioning in the Navy because of having cancer at one point, but that cancer was not an issue when she needed to deploy with a Special Operations element in a combat zone.
That’s the issue here. Some piece of shit bureaucrat sitting on their fat ass not giving a crap about a dumb rule that had zero common sense to it because they might have to break a sweat to fix it. Every service has them and they aren’t always in an “identified” bureaucracy. Sometimes they spawn into lower level organizations.
Those are the type of regulations I fight and/or ignore when necessary to get the mission accomplished and/or improve a Soldier’s situation. Unfortunately, in this situation, “we” are unable to ignore such a stupid thing because some bureaucracy lives by not changing something stupid because it would cause them effort.
” dumb rule that had zero common sense to it”
That’s your opinion. There is an old saying that before you tear down a fence, find out why it was built. There may actually be a reasonable explanation for why the rule was put in place.
Once again I wonder what in Syria is worth the life of any American?
Why were we there in the first place? Did anyone really think in 2011 that the uprising would succeed? That the Arab spring would produce anything but more misery ultimately?
These are the days the jaded cynic in me has serious doubts about the honesty of my own government.
It was where ISIS went nuts following the great Arab Spring that was to have solidified such great things for the Middle East but instead brought us Benghazi and a thousand other shithole incursions by third century animals wanting to impose a lifestyle upon the rest of the Arab world and eventually the rest of the entire world, including America.
They don’t tell us those things…
They were able to go nuts precisely because we interfered in the first place. Assad, like Hussein, is not a good man but like Hussein they bring stability to their nations. Creating a power vacuum allows ISIS and other bad actors an opportunity to get stronger.
In 2011 Obama’s goal was regime change, when that failed ISIS got stronger and by 2014 it was clear the overthrow would fail and it was time to focus on ISIS.
Had Obama actually earned that peace prize and kept the US out of Syria the revolution would have been crushed and Assad would have been able to focus on a tiny ISIS incursion that he could also have crushed.
Like Iraq we went in, created a power vacuum and fucked up the entire nation and have what to show for it? Dead Americans and not a thing worth any of their lives. As long as they are busy killing each other we don’t need to interfere. It’s when they stop and band together and look to export their killing we need to pay attention. Even then not letting them come here solves most of the problems with Islamic fundamentalists.
We started another foreign war without declaring war and created another mess for no good reason. We’ve been doing that a lot lately and it’s time for the nation and it’s elected representatives to reconsider their strategy because what we’ve accomplished is nothing at tremendous cost in lives and actual money.
Spot on regarding Syra, VOV. As I said 5-6 years ago: “Sometimes better the Devil ye know . . . . “
I’m kind of like one of my favorite essayists, Mencken in that we both write a ton of shit, sort of scatter shot and we get it right more through an artillery barrage of words and thoughts, than a surgical interpretation….
Bludgeon is always easier than scalpel. I wish had a better knack for the surgical commentary, but the bludgeon suits me best as it did Mencken, sadly.
“Artillery barrage…” When you not only want to kill him, you want to kill everything around him.
I am honored that Brother VoV, one of the Maestros of the written essay, chose to use my branch of the Combat Arms to make his point.
“The Guns, The Guns, we live to serve; For The Guns!”
As someone once said, (sort of) “90% of everything is crap”. Good writers make finding the 10% worth sorting through that 90%.
Question: Is there some rule in the Navy which would have precluded her from having a PhD and remain enlisted? If the obstacle was her ability to receive a commission due to the thyroid cancer, then the most obvious resolution would be to remain enlisted, get the degree and remain in the Navy for a while. Or to get the rule changed. Either way, why her attendance in the program was blocked sure seems at first glance to be rather petty, given that others in the military gain advanced degrees somewhat routinely. Perhaps not in this particular degree program, but she would certainly not have been the first or only enlisted puke to gain advance degrees on the military dime.
Nah, I’ve known enlisted folks with PhDs. The Navy won’t recognize it…meaning if she’s not commissioned as an MSC Officer licensed Psychologist, she can’t practice as a Navy Psychologist or use the title.
I actually knew one Sailor that was in that precise position (finished her education on active duty). She jokingly poked the bear by wearing a name tag that said HM3 Smith PhD. That didn’t fly for long, but she had fun.
They eventually offered her a commission, but she declined it and got out at her EAOS.
“Back in my day” a mustang had to be commissioned by his/her 35th birthday and serve at least 10 years to receive officer retired pay. During the early OIF\OEF years I think the Army temporarily raised it’s commissioning age to 41. Some enlisted troops with at least 90 college credit hours were commissioned as 2LTs in lieu of a completed bachelor’s degree. They had to finish the degree in order to be promoted to captain. With a high op tempo, some couldn’t finish and had to return to enlisted status. Now I think only 8 years of commissioned status is needed to qualify for officer retired pay.
CPO Kent seemed like she had the right stuff in abundance to serve as an officer. Not sure if her age (35) was a factor in not being able to pursue a commission. I was a mustang officer but not in the Navy so I don’t know what the current age requirements are for commissioning. Anyway, I support any change in regulations that allows more enlisted members to gain commissions and applaud Chief Kent’s family for pursuing this with the CNO.
“..not in the Navy so I don’t know what the current age requirements are for commissioning”
It varies often depending on the program and the current year though most tend to cluster closely. Needs of the Navy and fulfilling those needs drives it.
Physician Assistants (PAs) for example are educated in house in a joint program in San Antonio. They don’t take PAs off the street (they did try, the results were not good)and it’s usually very competitive.
One year they changed the age req’s and for that cycle allowed Sailors up to age 41 or 46 (can’t recall exactly) to apply without a waiver. Ho Lee Fukk…there was a sudden whirlwind of senior IDCs trying to get their packages put together and turned in before the deadline.
I never saw that situation repeated. Of course, it begs the question, if it’s ok one year then why not all years? PA is not a generally physically demanding occupation.
“PA is not a generally physically demanding occupation.”
I had to chuckle a little at this one. I went to an appointment at NAVHOSP Corpus Christi many many moons ago. The PA was a SEAL.
I always wondered if anyone decided they really weren’t as sick as they thought upon learning that they were going to be seen by the SEAL. “You know, this cut isn’t as deep as I thought. I’ll just pack it with dirt, wrap it in bacon and call it good. No need to waste the SEAL’s time with this small wound.”
That’s funny. 🙂
I know several former SEAL PAs.
It sometimes makes sense. If a SEAL graduates SFMS and becomes an IDC, but knows he’s not going to be able to punch his ticket by being a Platoon Chief and the other things generally required for advancement as a SEAL, or if he’s getting dinged up, applying for PA is a good option.
I’ve never once seen a SEAL that applied for the PA Program not get accepted and I only know one that didn’t graduate.
Yep, had one at NAS Jax, 2007-2010.
I also know one SEAL that went on to be a PA and was killed in a “Car Wreck” in Yemen. Yeah…car wreck.
RIP
Bureaucracy gone Full Retard again.
I know this may not be a popular opinion, but while this is certainly a tragedy I don’t see any particular “injustice” here.
I know the family of CPO Kent are going through hell right now but let’s get real: If CPO Kent had not been on that deployment, in that café, then someone else’s son or daughter would have been there in her place. I can understand them lashing out in their grief but this is no different than someone who got killed in Vietnam on his last day in-country.
Random? Tragic? Unfair? Yes, that’s pretty much what war is.
CPO Kent was a warrior who served in a war zone and died a warrior’s death. The fact that she might have had other plans or other potential careers doesn’t make her death any more tragic than that of any other service member.
Every Soldier, Sailor, Marine, Coast Guardsman or Airman who died in the service of our country had a family back home and had plans, dreams and a future that was cut short by their death.
We should salute CPO Kent for her service and her sacrifice and mourn with her family for their loss.
But the fact that she was disqualified from this or that program that might have kept her out of harms way is irrelevant since all that means is that someone else would have been in that position.
Have to concur. I would imagine there are plenty of dead soldiers who were
actually scheduled for one school or another that got yanked out to deploy.
Agree, her being disqualified from getting a commission didn’t serve as a catalyst for her getting deployed.
She was merely put back in the rotation with all others of her rank and MOS.
The regulations should be examined from time to time.
I have a friend who was a Sgt who went through MCECP. He had broken his neck and had surgery as a teen. He would have been DQ for an Army Comnmission but retired as a Marine Major.
UPDATE to this story:
“Navy Revises Rules In Wake Of Linguist’s Death In Syria”:
https://www.stripes.com/news/veterans/navy-revises-rules-in-wake-of-linguist-s-death-in-syria-1.567504
“Navy officials said they have made several changes to a flawed commissioning and waiver process that led to the deployment of a linguist killed in Syria last month…”
….”In his letter, Moran explains the changes installed by Navy officials will give the highest waiver consideration to sailors who are deployed. He also wrote the changes include establishing a standardized appeal process with an option of seeking a second medical opinion, requiring peer review of waivers to boost quality assurance and consistency and requiring all medical authorities operate on the same software system to ensure continuity….”