If a rational person took an unjaundiced look at the four recent shootings which have captured the media’s unblinking eye, they’d find a common thread running through all of them. The four being Jared Loughner’s rampage in Tucson, James Eagan Holmes’ shoot-’em-up in Aurora, Colorado, Adam Lanza in the Newtown murders and yesterday’s shootings by Aaron Alexis at the Navy Yard. All four fellows were known to law enforcement at some point. Loughner, Holmes and Lanza were all being treated by mental healthcare professionals and Alexis should have been, given his erratic behavior. Only Lanza was denied the purchase of a firearm by current laws, but only the law that requires his to wait three days. He couldn’t wait that long, so he killed his mother and used her guns.
But given their mental health treatment, all four should have been flagged in the NICS system, but no one was willing to take that step, for whatever reason. Even though law enforcement had the tools to prevent these four heinous crimes, they were reticent about using them.
As I mentioned previously, it took Seattle cops a month to finally confront Alexis after he discharged his firearm (a scary Glock) three times into the tire of some construction workers. They knocked on his door, and he didn’t answer their knock so they went away. They tried to telephone him, and again, he didn’t answer, so they didn’t bother with him.
TSO and I are experiencing the exact same thing. Last month, we were both threatened with bodily harm as well as harm to our families, so we reported it to police. When I reported the threats to the West Virginia State Police, the officer told me that he was going to try to call the suspect before swearing out a warrant against him because the officer didn’t want to negatively impact the suspect’s NICS report. Yes, the officer said that. Well, said suspect hasn’t returned the officer’s call, so we’re still waiting – a month later. Last week, the police finally moved on threats to TSO and went to the suspect’s house and knocked on his door. Clearly he was home what with all of the cars in his driveway, but he didn’t answer their knock, so they left.
Obviously, the police don’t take threats seriously. The suspect in our case threatened to send explosives to TSO’s home in flower and pizza deliveries. He threatened to hire hit men to take us out. We’ve both taken to carrying guns even in our homes. Sunday, I answered a knock on my door with my Colt Defender in hand, only to find a grade-schooler selling raffle tickets. Of course, I kept the pistol out of sight, but I felt guilty about it.
I can only imagine what the headlines will be if I do have to defend myself against this particular person. Since this person has threatened to kill me and beat me in front of my wife, I’d probably shoot him on sight given the graphic nature of his threats. Somehow, that would be blamed on my combat experience, I suppose.
So, this guy is out there running around and continuing his threats and the police are being polite. The dude has an extensive violent record and probably can’t buy a gun as a result anyway, but the police are doing a long, slow dance with him instead of removing the threat from society. But I guess my point is this; why have laws, why more laws if law enforcement is unwilling to use the existing laws to prevent things like what happened yesterday?
Common thread – Lack of common sense.
NO BALLS!!!!
/but I still have MINE!!!!
//BITCH!!! COME AT ME BRO!!! Right here in the old SUNSHINE STATE. Have a glass of fresh OJ!!.
Jonn- from the AP (so you see, he WAS being treated, supposedly):
Aaron Alexis, 34, had been treated since August by the Veterans Administration for his mental problems, the officials said. They spoke on condition of anonymity because the criminal investigation in the case was continuing. The Navy had not declared him mentally unfit, which would have rescinded a security clearance that Alexis had from his earlier time in the Navy Reserves.
Family members told investigators that Alexis was being treated for his mental issues
They haven’t dragged the Wickre man in yet? If he pulled this kind of crap in Houston, he’d be toasty critters. And you can bet his lard butt would be in the pokey passed around between Grande Juan and Bubba, with a special appearance by Big Eric.
Call the cops up, ask them how much money they would like to lose in a major well publicized law suit, and TELL them what to do, and to get it done, or they will be unable to make payroll when you are done with them.
And snipe the asshole. Then ditch the weapon.
I asked the WVSP to read this post, in this e message to them just now:
“In light of the crazies who are known to have mental problems yet still free to commit horrendous crimes, i.e. Navy Yard shooter, Newtown, Aurora CO, and Tucson shooter Jared Loughner; why, pray tell, when you are alerted to a person who has made multiple threats of death and mayhem, do you not act on those threats with a positive response? The link below, involves me and others at the link, and in particular the author of the article. You try to call the person? You don’t want to negatively impact his NCIS report? You leave him alone, and do not move on his threats?
It is no wonder that myself and many others have seen reason to re-assess our thoughts about law enforcement practices. The article at the link is short, and easily readable. I am curious:
https://www.azuse.cloud/?p=37622“
Jonn,
Call the police again today. You might find them more receptive in the immediate aftermath of yesterday and POLITELY remind them that they will look very stupid if this guy goes off.
I echo @7’s sentiments.
Be careful.
Watch your 6 Jonn, need a QRF I’m only a couple hours away
Interesting read from (gasp) National Review Online.
http://nationalreview.com/corner/358635/universal-background-checks-not-so-fast-charles-c-w-cooke
John, bad publicity is something no police agency desires. #6 has the right idea.
It’s admirable that the police are willing to use so much restraint, isn’t it? They will go running with guns drawn, so watch it if they do; one of them might trip and discharge his weapon in your direction, and it will be your fault.
I think I would offer the WV police and the MD police a choice between a lawsuit accompanied by really, seriously bad publicity, or going and arresting the damned fool.
Considering pickwick peckerwood’s history of run-ins with the law going back to 1997, and the demonstrable fact that he appears to have some kind of mental or alcohol-related issues, the po-po in both states are remiss in NOT following up.
They should be moving on him the way they would if he were suspected of having controlled substances in his house.
Maybe they’re more afraid of him than they are of you, JL.
Just FMI, is psul the uncool the reason the blog went down last night around 9PM?
Answering the door armed when an unexpected knock occurs is SOP in my house. Hell, keeping a pistol within arms reach period is SOP in my house for both me and my wife. Don’t feel guilty Jonn; people are too crazy these days. I’m glad you guys are taking the threat seriously
Jonn – it has been determined (at the Supreme Court level)that the police do not have an obligation to protect individual, just the community in general. I believe the original precedent was set when several women were held prisoner in their own house and raped multiple times over at least a day. One of them had called the police, but the cops merely looked the place over, and after seeing no signs of a crime, left, thereby condemning the girls to their ordeal. Whatever means of personal defense you take (because the cops aren’t going to take ’em for you) will need to take that into account. In the famous words, when seconds count, the cops are just minutes away. Use enough gun, center of mass, and in the famous words, don’t shoot till you think he’s dead, shoot till he thinks he’s dead.
This is probably a rhetorical question, but how is someone who has a little bit of pot in his home more of a threat to people than someone who makes threats of violence toward specific people?
This question is based on several episodes of the BATFE people in armor with weapons doing the door breakdown thing, terrorizing the occupants, getting the address wrong in one case, damaging property by trashing a house and destroying the homeowner’s front door – and refusing to pay for it – and either finding nothing, or finding maybe less than an ounce of marijuana.
I’m not in favor of legalizing pot, but people I’ve known who smoked dope were usually so stoned they could barely pick themselves up off the couch, never mind handle a weapon of any kind.
So again, how is someone with a history of violent behavior and/or threats of violence less dangerous than the dope smokers who just want to get dizzy?
Susan’s right. Push the issue with cops, Jonn. You have a legitimate concern, but you’ll need to convince the cops that yours isn’t the usual “white noise” they get about feuding neighbors and such. Don’t wait until it’s necessary to place a 911 call.
#11 Ex-PH2; yes it looks like he was on the blog at about that time.
@16, then I agree with Pinto Nag, push the issue with the cops. You’re being terrorized by this jackass because he thinks he can do that and get away with it.
The number of stories across the nation about neighborhoods being terrorized by a couple of well know d1ckheads is nothing new. I wish it were…most of these cases end violently with the guy making threats eventually killing someone or someone killing them. I find it interesting that the when the cops fell threatened they can justify shooting someone who was approaching them after an accident, or shooting some bystanders while failing to subdue someone walking erratically but they can’t justify sticking around long enough to get an answer when someone threatens a private citizen.
It reinforces the us/them situation prevalent in many cities with respect to the police. I know their job is tough, I know they don’t get a lot of thank yous or respect from the public, I know, I know, I know….but they signed up for the job, there was no draft making them police officers. If they don’t like the conditions of employment they can quit the f$cking job or else if they stay do the f$cking job.
If known scumbags are making credible threats and known good guys are asking for some action, what’s so difficult about knocking on the door until the 4sshole opens up?
I hate to say it, but #5 USMC STEVE might be right…sometimes the best defense is a powerful offense. It wouldn’t be the first time a known scumbag fell to a tragic early end and nobody gave a flying f#ck.
I know a few cases where a piece of garbage was found dead and the situation remains “unsolved” with no apparent leads and zero interest from investigators.
You guys should also alert Phildo.
Being not only Paul’s (of the Ballsack) friend, but a self-stated Brevard County Sheriffs Deputy can only help matters.
Jonn, when you get that kind of response from LE, it is time to go up their chain of command. I would even suggest you contact your local prosecutor/district attorney and share said information with them. Stay safe!
The last thing I would do is go after psul the uncool.
The first rule of martial arts is ‘let them come to you’. Let them bring the attack to you.
Several reasons, esp. here: the ‘crazy vet’ meme that is going around everywhere; the no-guns-for-anyone people; and the fact that psul likes to scream freaking murder at people with no apparent consequence for him.
Let him be the crazy person. His history is a pubic record of nutball behavior, violent threats, resisting and tangling with MD cops, and so on. Let him be the crazy person. Just keep your eyes and ears open. And if your four-leggers don’t warn, get 4-leggs that will.
As you know Jonn, West Virginia has Castle Law and defense/self-defense laws and articulate your actions within those laws. Take care, be alert, stay alive and prayers your way too.
To be clear my comments in @18 are at the apparent frustration for lack of movement by LE on behalf of the boys here aka TSO and Jonn. I was not, and am not advocating any violence…
I would never wish harm to anyone, nor do I advocate violence to anyone. My point was in my opinion it sometimes seems unfortunate that there is no other viable option when it comes to DEFENDING your self and your family.
I’d certainly be curious as to the LEO response if it was one of their own being threatened by Psulie-boi.
Curious. Not surprised.
You know what I’m sick of seeing mentioned in connection to this shit?
Guns and video games.
Seriously. Something like 75% of adults play violent video games more than once a week. And at LEAST one in three homes has a legally purchased, legally owned firearm in the home.
And yet, 75% or 33% of the populace is not a homicidal menace.
Well, Thatguy, is it 75% or 33%? Make up your mind.
Well, if he does do violence and it’s against a soft target, there will be a great many questions asked, especially since Wickre has cast his threat net so widely. Who might he hurt to get even for the imagined injustices that plague him? He is unstable, unbalanced, and unpredictable. The sooner he is off the street, the safer will the community be.
75% of people game. 33% of homes have a firearm legally purchased and obtained. Neither percentage seems to be the problem. That’s my point.
@28 – OK, thanks for clearing that up.
PKW is reminding me (hopefully) of the Dixie Chick’s verse “he was a missing person, whom nobody was missing at all”
Army veteran and 10 year local police veteran here.
The issues you’re talking about in regards to law enforcement here are extremely complicated ones, both legally and practically. It’s not at all unlike people who see a military situation and say, “Why don’t they just go up the hill and blow the bunker up?”
I’m not a cop in Seattle and I have no inside knowledge of the Alexis case regarding the shot tire. I can say, though, that the fact scenario I’m reading (one month delay, not making contact) doesn’t surprise me in the least. I can think of dozens of reasons why the case would take a month to come together, first of all. Second, it’s only been recently at my own agency that there’s been a task force put together that has the time and resources to follow up on something like that shooting with a search warrant (the only way you’re getting inside his house if he doesn’t answer; that’s the Constitution). That “task force” came together after the dissolving of some other important units, like the Auto Theft Task Force. There’s no question that reasonable people are asking, “How come my auto theft isn’t being followed up on?”
Regarding threats, I can tell you that the “Threats” call has become one of the most common cold calls I get dispatched to, and 99% of the time the threats are totally un-actionable. Back to the Constitution, but it takes some pretty extreme circumstances to become a crime.
(In my state, for instance, it can pretty much only be Menacing, which is portraying by word or deed the intent to cause serious physical injury or death while having the means and opportunity to do so. Note that that language requires 1) Intent 2) Means 3) Opportunity. It’s a high standard.)
So why is possession of pot more serious? Because it’s actually a crime. In my state, these e-mails are not. And besides that, you certainly must be aware that there are different units within law enforcement that deal with different crimes. The danger of rapists and murderers doesn’t mean that we stop burglaries, right? Yet no one is going to propose that we dissolve every property crime investigation unit and fold them into the homicide team.
Coupled to that is the fact that in my experience, threats are made good on way, way less than 1% of the time. Crazy threats even less. That doesn’t mean that I wouldn’t be freaked out by the same thing, it means that they are seldom made a priority because they seldom become a reality. And again, because there is probably no relevant crime involved. The badguy may be batshit crazy sounding, but the standard for taking someone on an involuntary mental health commitment is really high. As it ought to, considering what you’re talking about there (medical imprisonment).
Would cops protect their own more zealously than a member of the public? Good lord, does anyone here think it would be any different? Can any of you veterans, with a straight face, say that when you’re in the brigade AO you’re not looking out for the guys in your platoon? That when a cop I’ve known for years and been in fights with, maybe a shooting, says he’s scared for his family, that that doesn’t carry more weight than the same thing from someone I’ve never met before?
I’m not here to say that all the cops I know are awesome professionals any more than I’m here to say that all 11Bs were heroic warriors. But having lived in both worlds, I’ve been struck at how simple the two crafts seem to those who know nothing about them, but how complex they actually are in practice. We don’t get to kick down doors when we want to talk to people, we don’t get to throw crazies in dark holes, we don’t get to spend the next week working on the threats call we just got. Half the time, the most damning criticism is true as could be: we’re good about helping once bad stuff has happened, but we’re not much good until it has. Right now I could make a list several pages long of the people in my beat that I’m almost certain are going to do something horrible in the near future. That doesn’t create probable cause to arrest them, it doesn’t tell me where they are if I wanted to find them, and it sure as Hell isn’t going to impress a judge. Cops be constrained by their own stupidity, their own laziness and their lack of resources, but mostly they are constrained by the law. With guns we accept the danger they pose because of the benefits they bring; the law is the same. You want to be made absolutely safe by me? No problem, give me the power and I’ll make it happen, oh boy will I. We’ll start with your guns, by the way.
If all you’ve taken from this comment is that I’m an asshole, that’s fine. But there are a lot of cops and deputies out there. Most aren’t assholes. I bet you know one, or a friend of a friend, or something like that. Contact them and tell them you want to do a ridealong. Tell them you’re a vet; that’s an automatic in, most of the time. Go out in the car for a shift and run your questions, thoughts, and concerns by them. You might not like or agree with the answers, but at least you’ll be getting it from the horse’s mouth.
To the poster, I would advise that although your best course of action is obviously an AR15 shotgun loaded with 28 rounds of 00 buck, equally important is a clear understanding of self defense law in your state. Pursuant to that, although I wouldn’t go out without a pistol (also loaded with 00, preferably), I also wouldn’t go out without a can of pepper spray. Why? Because, e-mailed threats or no, the threshold for the use of deadly force is very high. If the unarmed gentleman in question suddenly approached you on the street and you drew down on him, would you shoot if he just advanced on you? If you killed him, you’d obviously formulate a defense based on his threats, but the outcome of that trial would be far from certain. On the other hand, if the same person suddenly appeared and you (or your wife) hosed him with pepper spray before he even had the chance to speak, you would be much more likely to be considered “reasonable”.
And, further, I assume you’ve investigated a protection order of some kind? Again, I only know my own state, but a stalking order would seem pretty appropriate. It would prohibit him from communicating with you and/or being within a certain distance of you. The value of that is that if he suddenly showed up outside your house tonight (on public property), it doesn’t sound clear that he’d be committing a crime. If there were a valid protection order in effect, his simple existence there would be criminal (and a mandatory arrest, usually).
Sorry that was so long.