Jeff Hanks went AWOL last year when he was scheduled to deploy. His excuse is that he needs treatment for his PTSD. To prove that he didn’t go AWOL as a publicity stunt, he turned himself in after his unit deployed, on Veterans’ Day at a press conference. Yeah, I know.
Well, of course, since it conveniently segues with IVAW’s Operation Recovery program which claims that wounded troops are being re-deployed while they’re still being treated, IVAW took up Hanks’ cause.
Here’s video of someone (I think it’s Jason Hurd but who can tell with all of that fur) delivering an Article 138 complaint to the 1st Brigade of the 101st Airborne Division on Hanks’ behalf.
For those of you who are wondering what an Article 138 is, it’s a complaint from a servicemember against his commander, because a service member thinks he or she is being mistreated. From the Navy’s IG website;
Any member of the Armed Forces who believes he/she has been wronged by his Commanding Officer must seek redress with the Commanding Officer personally.
What the above paragraph doesn’t say is that some random, unclean hippie off of the street can just walk into a brigade headquarters and file an Article 138 complaint on behalf of some member of the military. And I’m pretty sure that’s what the young staff sergeant in the video is thinking.
That Navy website also says;
Who should I contact to obtain more information about Article 138 procedures?
Your legal officer or command Staff Judge Advocate.
Notice that it doesn’t say “Ask any random, unclean, errant hippie off of the street”. The last word in the above quote is “personally”. The last time I checked, some unclean pot-smoking hippie handing a random staff sergeant a sheaf of papers isn’t “personally” between Hanks and his commander.
So I guess this is just more ineffective theater on the part of IVAW in what could be a laudable and effective campaign if they kept words like “AWOL” out of it. How can we take IVAW seriously if they’re going to make the same empty gestures that they always make?
PTSD diagnosises are made after the patient discusses symptoms and experiences. Anybody can study up on it and say the right things which basically forces the professional to give the diagnosis. Without the individual’s combat records and verification of the trauma, the diagnosis must be provisional. (that doesn’t mean they do make it provisional..but they should) When I worked in the Vet Center Program, (Readjustment Counseling Services), I made every patient fill out an SF 180 so I could check out his 201 file to verify his claims. I would initially make a provisional diagnosis awaiting the file from St. Louis. Sorted out a ton of wannabee’s that way. Many never returned for follow up after I sent for their records. Many did and I was able to give a much better diagnosis. Back then most of my patients wouldn’t have known how to fake a diagnosis. Today with all the info out there, it’s easy. The VA has now made it easier by not delving into the records to verify trauma and this makes me mad. I know the waiting period was unfair and for Army claims would take almost 2 years to get verification from DOA through morning reports etc., but it weeded out the non-hackers. My best buddy and I finally decided to file and it took 2 years to verify and that’s with CIB’s and Purple Hearts on our 214’s not counting other proven stressors through awards. I don’t know if the military docs in other places have access to their patients records. I did at the Naval Hospital and weeded out a couple of BS patients. 98-99% of my patietns had PTSD verified by their records but were never refused treatment by their commands. That’s not to say it doesn’t happen.
Even if this guys Command screwed the pooch there are legal ways in place today to help him out. As everyone has said here, there is a right way, wrong way, (I like this), and the Airborne Way. Going AWOL is not the right way and no combat vet should be so naive’ as to go to a bunch of crud for help. He is setting himself up for failure and the IVAW will love it because they can make him a poster child for their cause, until they’ve used him up.
Jonn: Judging by the video, it looks like this may have taken place during off-duty hours…either that, or the brigade and battalion are mysteriously missing a lot of people for the duty day. So that SSG may have been the staff NCO. You don’t know that he wasn’t the right person to give it to, you’re just assuming based on the presence of Jason Hurd. And again, in the Army, if you’re not turning in your paperwork yourself, you want it to go to someone you trust. I know I’ve asked buddies that I trusted who were going by the O-Room to drop my stuff off-but only ones I knew would actually do it and wouldn’t lose my shit in a bar. If Jason was the only person that Hanks trusted, then it does make sense why he was the one delivering it.
Susan: How do you know this guy didn’t try the system first? From all accounts it looks like the system failed this guy.
Sporkmaster: The IVAW helped me to a quality attorney, CPT Lebowitz (same attorney Casey Porter used successfully as well). Though he was a reserve JAG attorney, he was not /my/ JAG attorney, but did know the law regarding military speech much better than my local JAG. I credit him solely and entirely with getting the spurious and ridiculous charges my commander had tried to push against me dropped. So yes, the IVAW has helped people.
For those talking about secondhand PTSD, I’m going to surprise people by saying that I actually do believe in it to some degree, but strangely it was not my military experience that convinced me but my experience with the families of Holocaust survivors. I’ve noticed through personal experience and subsequently read studies on, that children of Holocaust survivors with PTSD (and god knows if anyone has legit claims to PTSD, it’s those guys, holy shit) tend to often display some of the same behavioral changes to a lesser extent as the actual Holocaust survivors. I don’t think it’s from the stories themselves, I think it’s from the effect of living and being raised with someone with severe and untreated PTSD. I’m not sure I would call it PTSD itself, but it’s definitely something.
LTC Tim: Support from IVAW does not necessarily mean support from Branum. People really need to stop associating the two. Branum is a lawyer that a lot of IVAW members have used, but he’s not “the IVAW lawyer”. Also, I’m not really sure on the whole AWOL thing, but there are a LOT of IVAW members who /don’t/ go AWOL, need assistance for other matters, and do really well with IVAW assistance. Judging IVAW’s support by looking only at those soldiers who already went AWOL is like looking at the quality of medical treatment by only judging who survived a hanging. I universally advise people, no matter what their situation, NOT to go AWOL, because whatever their issues, it only makes them worse. However, when soldiers with legitimate issues have already made bad choices, the fact that IVAW is willing to try to help them shouldn’t be used as a slam on IVAW.
Also, you are right that there are many resources in place to help soldiers with PTSD, but unfortunately there are /also/ a lot of dinosaurs who refuse to let soldiers get help. I was in a command where that took place-it was determined that the soldier didn’t really “need” mental health, he just wanted to get out of work and extra duty, so he couldn’t go. It was my soldier, before I was educated, and I bought into the hype that was being passed down from the command, so don’t worry, I blame myself as well. That soldier is now dead. His fiance miscarried the twins she was carrying at the shock, and the sound of his son at the funeral is still awful. So please excuse me if I’m a bit sensitive about the subject-I have really vivid reminders of what happens when we just trust to the system and don’t make waves. I’ll be damned if I ever do that again. So yeah, I will support the Jeff Hanks of the world when people are saying “oh, he’s just a dirtbag, maybe he really doesn’t have PTSD”, because you know what? The alternative, the idea that maybe he does and he’s being prevented from getting treatment and we could have another tragedy on our hands, is even worse.
Hanks went AWOL before he even knew that the IVAW existed. Unfortunately another of the symptoms of PTSD often includes flawed decisionmaking. How do I know this? Because it was a component of my own PTSD treatment while in the Army-where you had to start analyzing “Is this REALLY a life or death situation? What is the likelihood that you will actually be killed in this scenario? Given that, don’t you think you might want to dial this back a little?” A lot of times, people with PTSD, particularly /untreated/ PTSD, tend to make decisions that are based on trauma rather than logic.
DaveO: You don’t know what the Article 138 was for. If it was for the absolutely terrible mental health treatment-including /having his command in the room when he was talking to the shrink/, then he does have a justified case. One of the key points of therapy is that it’s supposed to be /private/.
WOTN: Except that practically speaking, you can deploy someone with a “non-deployable” profile, because it’s “just a recommendation”.
1AirCav69: If you have a CIB and a Purple Heart and it took 2 years to verify your PTSD, that is not a job well done, that is a fucking travesty.
I filed a successful article 138 against a commander back in 2000. I ended up getting reassigned to a platoon sergeant position (I was a squad leader) in another company. My life was he’ll for the next year before I moved. She is no longer in the military.
AirCav: The current administration has removed the requirement that any traumatic event be proven (or claimed) as the cause of PTSD.
As of 2010, one merely needs to claim it and they get the treatment and paycheck. And if there is one thing Our Troops today know, it is what the required symptoms of PTSD are. PTSD training is more important to today’s military climate, than is construction of an Infantry Fighting Position.
AS: I only know of one Soldier who had a legitimate basis for going AWOL. After months of not getting paid and no command emphasis to get the problem fixed, he went AWOL to provide for his family. That was in the 90’s and he returned. He had exhausted his Chain of Command options before going AWOL and his return put it up at the General level of command, which finally got the issue fixed.
WOTN: That’s not /entirely/ accurate. You have to prove (as far as I recall) that you have a likelihood of getting it. Which is why MST victims are still screwed. It’s not as easy to prove you were definitely raped as you’d think, even though rape is a huge cause of PTSD.
I agree with you that there are few legitimate basises for going AWOL. I can really sympathize with that guy though-I still remember when my pay got hosed for a few months. Only the generosity of friends and a lot of loans got us through. I’m glad that he finally got taken care of though.
AS: Rape is heinous crime that is underpunished and whose victims suffer from many of the same issues as those with PTSD. I.e. the volume of exaggerated numbers and false reports casts doubt on true victims.
While combat PTSD and rape PTSD have symptoms in common, one is the result of experiences and the other a result of victimhood. They are not the same.
Problems of prosecution of rapists is excerbated by natural reaction (of cleaning the evidence).
But again, the rules were changed in 2010 for PTSD claims, in such a way that will result in increased diagnosis of decreased legitimacy, as no proof of traumatic event is necessary. We reported the change in July: http://waronterrornews.typepad.com/home/2010/07/obama-improves-veterans-care.html
I’m unfamiliar with the acronym MST.
(There’s also a difference in being an NCO w/a partial check and lower enlisted getting “no pay due” for months at a time.)
AS…yep, I agree that having to wait just under 24 months for them to process our claims…and we weren’t the only ones, is a travisty…especially if you’re counting on the money to survive. I only used Pighumper and my experience. But, and I guess my point, is , that I’d rather see a long waiting period and a complete check of records then just passing out claims because somebody claims it. I literally had vets coming to the Center saying…when asked if how I could help them, say…”yes, I’d like to get that Vietnam thing.” I’d say…what Vietnam thing is that. “Well, you know, get money for being in Vietnam”. I’d ask, about problems, etc. (making a long process short) “Well, I have that Vietnam thing”.
I have been a Veterans advocate since getting my shit together in the mid to late 70’s. I’ve been a die hard in fighting within the system for what is fair and deserved. But damn it…I’ve seen real vets with real PTSD denied until fought to the end and to think now, all you gotta do is study the symptoms, see a doc, and get a PTSD claim without ANY verification of trauma cheapens it like getting a Purple Heart for heat exhaustion. And…I really really do have a Purple Heart and a CIB. I truly believe having a recognizable stressor like the PH/CIB is good but since in my day only the NAVY/USMC had CAR’s for anyone who saw combat, and the Army did not, there were many in Vietnam who did not get that kind of award. Truckers, convoy security, etc. saw combat but without a records check, which the VA didn’t do and JUST went by recognizable stressors, they were screwed. So the VA had to go to records checks for ALL. That was good but took a long time, but again, weeded out the bullshit. Now…it’s just olly olly in-free and that’s worse. The pendulum needs to be centered not far right or far left. Sorry guys for the long winded responses but this has been a 30 year fight, and now I see it going so far the other way, it’s wrong.
Honor and Courage
Air Cav: Use as many words as necessary. You’re spot on and saying what needs to be said.
Yeah, that’s not even long winded for here 🙂
I get your issue about balance, I just wonder how to take care of the guys who really need help and are getting screwed. For example: admittedly, I can get by without the VA, even if I probably should go in. But the idea of going into a potentially two year battle just to get in the damn door makes me twitch. I have enough trouble with the stress and fights I can’t avoid, and I’m not even that bad. I know guys who are paying for their private therapists rather than deal with the hassle of the VA. I’ve toyed with the idea of joining them. And part of the reason it takes so long is because the VA just doesn’t have enough people to do what it wants to do. It’s the same reason people get screwed on their GI Bill payments every semester.
So if the VA was fully funded, I’d have less issues about them coming after people and trying to track down corroborating statements and stuff. The “you don’t need a proven individual stressor” is just there because they know they can’t handle the workload.
But I also really don’t think the VA should be in the business of trying to be suspicious of vets…maybe some other agency, because guys go in and talk to their therapists, and there’s this adversarial relationship. “How can I trust you, you’re automatically assuming I might be lying. Screw you, I’m out of here.”
AS: “fully funding” the VA is an elusive goal, particularly when the government opens the door for fraudulent claims to go unchallenged.
The VA is an entrenched bureacracy with entrenched bureacrats that don’t need fear loss of employment. That is not to say that many good people don’t work there, but that many others are just dirtbags collecting a check.
As with any bureacracy, there is a limited amount of resources available. Those resources must be applied efficiently to those that have earned them. Adding to the demands on those resources from people that have not earned them diminishes the resources available to those that have.
If there’s one thing reading TAH should demonstrate, it is there are a helluva lot of fakes and frauds out there.
Though the EO previously discussed is an example of how these resources are overtaxed in this vein, the best example of how this has historically occurred is the “Homeless Veteran” debate.
Those Veterans that have worked most closely in the “Homeless Veteran” cause are the first to say that most that claim that status are not Veterans.
AS: did you ETS? If you’re still active, you shouldn’t be dealing with VA. DoD is still responsible for all AD medical care.
In either case “Army One Source” also has a program for counseling outside the DoD/VA system on a variety of issues.
AS…it is my understanding with the new VA directives the 2 year stuff is gone. Also, we, the Vietnam Vets of the nation fought hard to get a program in place that is hassel free. It’s called the Vet Center or Readjustment Counseling Services. “Mainstream” VA hated our guts when we first began our store front counseling services. They wanted us in the hospitals or regional offices where we could be under their thumb. Battle after battle raged to keep us on the street and we won. The VA set the program up for failure by making the only requirement to be a therapist a Vietnam Vet or Era Vet. That’s it…no professional credentials, nothing. Many Vet Centers at first were nothing more than places for guys to come in and get high. WE started weeding out those guys and the program, thank God, morphed into what became a model. I’m not saying all Vet Centers are perfect but I urge all to at least go and give them a chance. Many vets don’t want to hear what we as therapists say. They don’t want to change the BEHAVIORS that are causing most of the problems. They then quit saying…Oh, those assholes didn’t help me.” Well, if you go to a doctor for a headache but tell them your foot hurts…you ain’t going to get the headache fixed. I had a decorated Marine Vet from VN who along with his PTSD had a horrible substance abuse problem. Years of self-medication. He went to every rehab program the VA had…good ones. When he got out, he’d go right back to abusing. His wife said to me…”The VA hasn’t done shit for him.” No, the VA did a ton of shit, he won’t do for himself. I loved that patient…like I did most…but he died early because he never quit abusing. My VA shrink is the best I’ve ever had. I heard guys telling me…”She’s young and a woman, she don’t know shit about combat”. My response, “You don’t have to be a cow to know where milk comes from.” I don’t have to be Bi-Polar to know how to treat it.
The VA is full of faults and Bureaucrats…yes, but as WOTN also said it’s full of people that care. If you guys could only have tried the use the VA that me and thousands of other Vietnam Vets found when we got home, you’d be horrified. We are no more special than you and you are no more special then we. Yep, gonna take some time for a claim to get filed. Yep, goanna take some time to get an appointment. But…if you want treatment and seen fast, the Vet Centers are there to help. Give them a try and give them some time. You don’t get better overnight and you usually don’t get better without some behavioral changes they will help you with. When I see a civilian doc….I’ve never got right in. Gotta wait with everyone else. You can’t have everything you need today and you cannot use that you didn’t get it today as an excuse not to get it.
As my father said: “Son, sometimes life leaves a 100 bill on the dresser for you. It’s not until later that you find out that the reason is life has just fucked you”.
We all get screwed and we all get laid. You just gotta ride it out.
Thanks for the nice words WOTN and everyone else.
Honor and Courage
Air Cav: I have a special respect for my VN brothers. Y’all went through abuses that never should have been. My generation learned from yours in ways many do not know. It was your battles on the field and in the streets that I’ve studied most. It steeled me to the civilian reactions of 2006 and is likely the reason for many “milblogs,” even as your generation were the first to stand in defense against the IVAW/VVAW/Code Stink types.
VN saw Our Troops and Our Military blindsided by a different type of attack, one directed from Moscow with our own citizens willing participants as leaders in a propaganda war that led others astray from reality.
The PTSD of VN Veterans is different than that of OEF/OIF Veterans, in part because of the severity of abuse by segments of our population, a factor documented by LTC Grossman, but little discussed in the PTSD debate.
Are VN Veterans “special?” Their experiences are certainly unique and hopefully will remain so, to the extent that we can stand together in defense of current Veterans. It is the reason sites like TAH, WOTN, and others are so important. Each is a part of puzzle, a part of the defense that exposes readers to the Truth, whether like TAH exposing the lies of slanderers, or WOTN in exposing the truth of the battlefield, or active Troops telling their personal stories.
In today’s technologically advanced world, the VA is still mired in redtape, as is the entire Federal Bureacracy. There is an answer, even if I don’t have it, but it has to involve the shedding of political correctness, redtape, and the protection of ineffective bureacrats. There is strength in simple language such as the Constitution and weakness in the overcomplicated lawyer legislation of modern day.
And Air Cav: “Welcome Home”