ROS sent us this video from the Morning Joe program in which the hosts discuss what’s “fair” in the economy and leadership;
Is it government’s job to distribute “fairness” along with everything else it does? Since when is “fairness” anywhere in the Constitution? Will that family of four which makes over $250k a year think it’s fair when they start getting whacked with a huge tax bill?
I don’t see any of those people in Washington turning in any of their pay because they don’t think it’s fair that they make 100 times more than the taxi cab driver who wheels them from meeting-to-meeting.
It’s not government’s job to create “fairness”. The Constitution and the Bill of Rights was written to protect us from our government. Every time the government writes a new regulation or law, someone somewhere is losing some of their rights and choices.
Remember when Eliot Spitzer was ravaging investment companies for unfair trade practices in New York State several years ago? When he settled with those companies, do you think the investors who lost money because of those trade practices got the money that Spitzer got in their name? Nope, it went into NY’s coffers like pirate booty. How did that help the People?
There is no fairness in the tax code. The government manipulates our lives with tax breaks and channels our existence into neat columns for what they think is good for us. How is that fair?
The rich are just scapegoats and this babble about fair tax codes perpetuates class warfare. There’s nothing fair about taking money from one group to give to another group which had the same opportunities as the first group and that’s what equality and fairness is really about – everyone having the same opportunities.
I choose my career and i do what I like to do, where I like to do it. Hallis Mailen chose to be a smelly hippie and a holistic healer. It’s not my responsibility to maintain his fruitless lifestyle and his pear-shape because he made poor choices. That’s only fair.
And, oh, my Army pension just dropped another $50/month – how is that fair?
So mine wasn’t the only one who took a hit on the pension check. Tell me again how everybody got a tax cut from Obama. Mine sure went up.
Joe is a Cocktail Party Republican. He likes to go these fancy parties in New York and LA and rub elbows with all the limousine liberals who probably give him props for bashing conservatives which strokes Joe’s ego.
Fortunately, him and his ilk are on the outs in the party right now.
You offer a wonderfully cogent argument – Perhaps sadly wasted?
The Declaration of Independence offers us a chance for the PURSUIT of happiness. Too many have managed to warp that idea into some sort of guarantee. Those won’t hear.
Also, someone needs to remind these mamby-pamby jackwagons that equal OPPORTUNITY isn’t going to create equal RESULTS. Ever. The worst examples of this are people who are given opportunities hand over fist rather than MAKING their own, and then wondering why they’re not “rich” when they piss all those chances away waiting for Skittle-shitting unicorns to drop into their laps.
Sparky; you still didn’t get yours? I got mine last week and now I have all the neigborhood kids hanging out outside the door, waiting for me to open it and let all the skittles fall out (my Unicorn is a gassy little shit).
Just A Grunt, Every retiree’s check went up. Remember the Making Work Pay bullshit they passed in the stimulus bill? That tax cut was rescinded by the Obama admin in the compromise to keep the Bush Era tax rates the same for the next two years. If you have social security deducted from any pay checks then you will see a increase. I am on social security and military retirement so I like a lot of us got screwed, along with vets on disability with no increase, but I’ll bet SNAP payments went up. Now, the left leaning Center for American Progress has published a report on raising Tricare cost to retirees dramatically. We need to fight this vigorously, because if it is allowed to go into effect they will then also attack VA Health Care benefits. The veterans organizations are all playing bullshit games with their saying we all need to help with the debt problem by paying more. Sorry to rant.
Jonn-
For years I have asked my left minded friends about the guarantees in the Constitution for fairness. You can be institute a fairness policy among your kids when it comes to food, allowance, and what you will do for them. But you cannot and nor does the Constitution provide for equal brainpower, potential or anything else.
People that believe eqaulity or fairness can be legislated are effed up. Liberalism is a mental disorder.
It wasn’t just military pensions that took that hit. My pension from my previous life in LE took the same hit. When queried, the response was “look at the fine print’, the government did, indeed, raise withholding.
My pension statement says, “Please be advised that as of 12/31/2010, the “Making Work Pay” tax credit, a provision under the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act has expired. As a result, recent updates to the 2011 Federal income tax withholding tables may cause you to notice a change in your Federal withholding amount.” Emphasis added.
So please explain to me how a kid born into an inner city slum, who may have been malnourished in the womb and prenatally, perhaps developmentally and neurologically, handicapped even before he was born, and was then raised in an impoverished environment – intellectually, nutritionally, educationally, financially – who never had a book to read, never was taught the value of work or an education – explain to me again how that innocent kid has equal opportunity to a kid born in an affluent suburb with all the advantages? Explain that to me please…
Explain to me how it’s MY responsibility to do for that child what his parents didn’t do? Show me where in the Constitution it gives the government the right to TAKE from me to make up for the poor choices of his antecedents. I’m not being a hard ass, I’m just saying that taking from me, who taught my kids to read, sent them to school every day and clothed and fed them, to give to someone else out of some perverse sense of fairness is evil and destroys more than it helps.
This fairness shit encourages irresponsibility. Bad choices should have consequences, not promote a lifetime of sloth.
He doesn’t, Joe. Any more than the white fawn or the two-headed frog has the same advantage as the healthy counterpart.
So what’s all this blather about this country providing equal opportunity?
Joe; do you mind if I add a violin playing in the background when I read your bleeding heart bullshit? Please bring to the table the percentage of kids that are in your exact scenario. Please do that. All you have to do is look around and there are more programs for inner city kids than you can shake a stick at. Why? Because there have been so many people trotting out that same old scenario to get funding for this program or that program. Schools provide breakfast, lunch, and dinner in some inner city school districts. Books are in the libraries, as well as computers. If the parent isn’t around to make sure the kid is fed and clothed, then I doubt they would care if the kid was at the library reading a book and doing homework on the computer. The 60’s are long gone and the LBJ war on poverty, according to you, is not even close to being won (would you care to throw up the numbers regarding the running talley of money THAT has cost us). How much money are we supposed to throw at it, Joe? How much will it take? If the inner city types weren’t breeding like rabbits and showed the smallest amount of personal responsibility, then you might have a small point, but that’s not the case; is it? How long and how much am I supposed to pay for other peoples bad choices and lack of personal responsibility? I live in the “hood” and I see the irresponsible behavior on a daily basis. I see mommas and lots of kids, but I see very few daddies around (I see a few, but they are definitely outnumbered by the mommas and kids by a factor of 10) and that is result of the LBJ “Great Society” bullshit, where welfare is only a shagging away. Illigitimacy skyrocketed since then, because personal responsibility was taken out of the equation. The reason? People like you, who blubber on about how we need to take care of other people’s kids and pay momma to have more of them. Then, when momma blows the welfare check on her new weave and shoes, instead of her child, we are told by hunyucks like you that we need to spend more of our money to get little Sally and Johnny new shoes and food for the table. Mom is off the hook, again!! Start bitching to the parental units, not me, I’m tapped. Find another sucker.
Your example indicates a pre-existing handicap, one that cannot be overcome by personal effort.
The point made above was that a person that is mentally and physically sound has the opportunity and ability to achieve their goals and the life they wish to have.
What Pinto said +.
I just wanted to see how you justified you ruthless, self-centered, Darwinian viewpoints, that’s all. Pursuit of happiness = rule of the jungle. OK, got it.
Yeah, ruthless ol’ me. Ya know, Joe, the church used to take care of the disadvantaged. Until you God-less heathens decided that government should be our religion. People would donate more to private charities that can deliver services more cheaply than government if we weren’t paying protection money to government at a rate of 25-50% of our annual income already.
Joe, opportunity does no equate success. There is not such thing as a “glass ceiling” this country is a meritocracy. Your father could be a mass murderer, but if you decide that, darn it all you’re going to make it your mission in life to become a doctor and do some good in the world, then you can in fact do so, provided you apply yourself and actually have the aptitude for it.
For the purposes of this discussion, you are confusing Charity with Entitlement. If you somehow manage to survive Roe V Wade (which if Liberals were to be listened to would become increasingly difficult) the instant you leave the birth canal somehow entitles one to. . . what? A lifetime of government programs?
So let me ask this Joe, why isn’t FDR’s “Second Bill of Rights” remembered with such fondness as the first (though most people only seem to know I, II and V)? Its because it has been proven over time that FDR was full of something. That he very nearly ran this country into the ground, and, had Hoover and FDR not tried to tinker so badly witht eh economy, the Crash and the Depression that followed might have been little more than a cyclic bump in the road. Notice how the Crashes seem to be getting worse? The myth that everybody was owed a house lead us to this one, the myth the the internet would be so big that it would kill every other form of business caused one in the 90’s. These would have been little more than bumps in the road if not for panicking politicians and Fuax economic theory being taught at major institutions by ideologues, not actual you know Businessmen.
Charity is willingly giving to the less fortunate, which the bible demands, not as a matter of penance for as yet unknown sins, but because the world is better with Charity. This would be lost on the Left because the Bible is something that they have fought to repress. Charity is good for the idividual and it states quite clearly that ones blessings will increase as a result of giving. You can debate the theological merits if you like, this has been shown to be true, when people give freely. When it becomes a chore, it is bemoaned, reviled and despised. It would be like a very big bully holding you up by your ankle to get your lunch money, because his friend spent all his on his brand new low riding bike with shinny new rims and spinners.
Joe: Pursuit of happiness = rule of the jungle. OK, got it.
Ya didn’t even get that right.
Although I agree with OT #12, I’ll only offer this you nitwit.
Everyone is not guaranteed a win. We can be supportive, mind you, but how can everyone win without a loser here and there.
You win the the silly award… and I win too. Dang, maybe yer right?
Joe you don’t realize that you are a huge part of the problem. You spend long enough telling someone they can’t to it by themselves they will eventually start believing you and not do anything. If I listened to jackasses like you Joe I would be in prison just like my dipshit brother, I would have multiple children I don’t care for, and have nothing worthwhile in my life.
Joe, I’ve never minded helping someone who needs help. I don’t even mind if my government does it. What I mind is supporting lifestyles that are a bottomless pit of wants and needs. That can be a welfare mother who won’t take responsibility for her reproductive cycle, or a nation run by warlords that lock up the grain we send and let their people starve. We have knocked out all the old restraints and stigmas, hoping that when we did that, the people “suffering” under them would be released to their full potential. What has happened is that we have removed all sense of personal responsibility, and yes, the SHAME (to use a very un-PC term) that would normally have caused at least some people to take action. Now, all we have left is, to quote from a familiar source: “…the horse-leaches daughters crying ‘give, give!'”
Theism is not a prerequisite for morality either though I might point out. “The Bible teaches” is always a losing proposition because the Bible teaches lots of things depending on how you read it and what your own personal leanings are. That, I have no doubt, is a discussion none of us really wants to get into at the moment.
Universal utilitarianism as a philosophy more than makes up for theism in this regard and in fact shines light on a few of theism’s short comings in the realm of charity.
Empathy should, and usually does, guide us in charitable giving, it’s this that we should be trying to foster. Fear and coercion, either by the church or the State should have nothing to do with it.
All that aside, the fact is, if the State didn’t take so much of my damned money, I WOULD spend more on charities here in my community, the State has taken my ability as a human being to both care for myself and care for others at the same time, and taken away the liberty I should enjoy of investing my cheritable efforts where I see fit. Up your’s Joe.
I’m reminded, in reading the comments posted above, of a practice I witnessed a while ago. At the local version of the Special Olympics, each athlete was given a ribbon and very nicely done certificate. The measure of performance was Showing Up. Joe’s arguments point to that same emotional state: pity of the less fortunate. The logic goes: since this person showed up in life, they deserve all of the rewards.
Religion was introduced earlier. Here’s a basic truth I believe is supported in the Christian Bible (Matthew 25: 14-30): God does not support or promote equality of opportunity. He, and not government made up of humans, selects the winners – not out of greater love for those who win, but because He places greater levels of responsibility on the winners. He does expect folks to take what they get and make the most of it. A child with Down’s Syndrome is not going to grow up to fly the Space Shuttle or its follow-on system. That same child need not live a life of idleness either.
Democrats have one good point that I have to concede to them: they are excellent at spotting real, social problems. What makes them so awful in every other aspect of their lives is their lack of integrity: spot a problem, make government solve it with the taxpayers’ money. So how to employ the mother of Joe’s hypothetical child? We’ve consolidated industries, and then shipped them overseas. To ensure there’s no competition, we’ve allowed regulations that make cottage industries prohibitive. Get rid of the regulations, open up the field to entrepreneurs and insist on high quality at affordable prices. Have you necessary rid the world of Joe’s hypothetical child? No, but you’ve given him or her the means to take the life as given and make more of it.
Joe, fuck you. Just fuck you.
Were you born with a “disability”? Lived in less-than-stellar circumstances? No? Then step away from the keyboard and shut the fuck up.
I was. Doctors told my parents I would never be able to function like “normal” children, I’d never be able to write, use my hands, etc. My birth certificate says “deformed, abnormal”.
Guess what, asshole, I’ve been a MENSA member for 9 years, I’ve been published nearly 3 dozen times, I hold 2 degrees and speak five languages.
Your “poor, pitiful soul” attitude is exactly why people in such situations DON’T strive for more. So again, in English, I’ll say “fuck you.”
Joey, “never had a book to read”? You just drew a BS flag for that flaming bit of ignorance. Maybe the kid could practice reading on the flat screen in the living room, when they show the credits on MTV?
The opportunity is there, if the kid, despite all that rains down on his poor, disadvantaged head, steps up and responds, or if his parental unit does. In far too many cases, if momma don’t get before noon, the kid won’t either. So, if he even decides to go to school, he’s a half day behind the few who did show up. Then, he has to overcome all that he hears from the other rocket scientists in his class, decrying him/her “acting white”.
Is any of that my fault? Nope, not one bit of it. I pays my taxes, the government wastes what I pays, then turns around and says, more please, or else.
So Joey, “ruthless, self-centered, Darwinian viewpoints”? Nope, I’m tired, tired of having to support untold numbers of kids that aren’t mine, and I can’t even get a tax deduction for the ankle-biters. But momma gets the EITC, deductions up the wazoo, and doesn’t even pay taxes on that. Oh, and a bridge card(food stamps) that she can use to buy candy, beer, and anything else her heart desires.
Joe,
I was born in the “situation” you describe. My mother was 14 when she got pregnant, 15 when she had me. My father was 16. (Both were born into large, impoverished families). Guess what? I am successful and so are the three siblings that came after me. My mother wasn’t a victim and didn’t want to be. Welfare shamed her, so she worked hard. Her and my father MARRIED(an out-dated concept I know) at 18 and 19, and my mother went on to get her GED and then her college degree. It can be done because we have the same opportunity in life to succeed. It just takes a little effort.
ROS:
Don’t hit Joe with that right of yours, he will lose his lunch. Hehehehehe, sorry Joe but you just got bitch slapped clear back to yesterday.
It is clear to me, that however you view Charity (in Theistic or secular views, and I personally prefer the theistic but again that is not the debate at hand) the Government is not and should not be one. It is there to provide for the common defense and promote the well being of the citizenry.
Believe it or not Joe, we kinda want the little guy to succeed. Hell I would love a success promoting climate, a vision of something more noble than ourselves. I don’t want to hear about the endless diatribe of how our entitlements aren’t fair. Of course they’re not. Government in a lot of way is a lot like medicine, you have to do the most good for the most number of people. Now you might have to amputate a leg, which given more time you might have been able to save, but MIGHT is usually the key word. But that person will be alive. The same is said of doing an urgent move on a patient that MIGHT have a spinal injury. You MIGHT paralyze them, but they’d probably be dead if you didn’t move them.
Now imagine you have the federal government making these calls. Speaking in the metaphorical, if you are walking wounded, what would you rather have happen, see yourself some help, go to a clinic that can see you immediately, or go to an ER that is jam packed and you’ll no doubt have to wait a few hours. It is far easier on you and everyone else if you take care of yourself, or if you need help deal with it at the lowest possible level that way the guy that comes in with a gusher, or the retard that tried to smoke oregeno won’t keep bumping you down the list.
Explain that to me please
Joe,
I’m not sure why we need to tell you this, but… life isn’t fair. TANSTAAFL. And other cliches.
But tell you what… you get your ideological kindred (the Kennedys, the Heinz-Kerrys, the Gores, the Pelosis, etc.) to donate to an appropriate charity any property, holdings, and income above the global mean, and I’ll rethink my position.
>life isn’t fair
My dad drilled this little phrase into me as I was growing up. I hated it with a passion, but when I got out into the “real” world- I wasn’t shocked. I didn’t expect “participation” trophies for showing up at work. I thank god everyday that my dad drilled into “life isn’t fair.” I do it with my own children to with other brutal bits of wisdom.
melle; my foster dad (yes, Joe, I grew up without my real parents around and after my dad’s parents died, I was put in foster care) used to say “you want it, you buy it” as a way to tell me if I wanted something, I needed to work to get it. During the Summer, in high school, I worked 2 jobs to be able to buy the things I wanted. In between my junior and senior year, I worked 4 jobs all at the same time (1 full-time and 3 part time) in order to get what I wanted. I worked 7 days a week 12-15 hours a day, while my friends were out on the lake with the girls, I was baling hay or building someone’s house or remodeling a store or hauling milk from the farms. While they were spending money that their parents gave them, I was making money that I put towards buying my own car and my own motorcycle. I didn’t have to ask anyone for money so I could go get a burger or go to a movie. No one gave me shit (except good advice and focus), Joe, I worked for it and that is something I instilled in my daughters. When my oldest was getting ready for driver’s ed., she made mention that she wanted a car when she turned 16 and I told her to get a job and save her money. My ex didn’t grow up that way, if they wanted a car, her dad got her one, so she was mad that I told our daughter to get a job if she wanted a car. Well, my daughter took my advice and got a job, worked hard, and when she was ready to buy a car, she paid cash (it was a used car, obviously) and it was hers. She was very proud of the fact that she bought it with her own money. She earned it and it was hers. When we went to pick it up, I could see the pride in her as she gave the money and got the keys. Same with my younger daughter. I tried to prepare them for life, not the bs they teach in school, where they teach like Joe thinks, equal outcome no matter the effort, because out in the real world, that means nothing. They were better prepared than some of their classmates, that’s for sure.
@Old Trooper,
We all had to buy our own cars(largely because my parents didn’t have that kind of money), but I don’t think they would have helped if they could. We bought the car, paid for the gas, and paid for our own insurance. It made the lesson of responsibility so much better for us. It was “our” car. If we didn’t get the oil changed, or things fixed on it- it was our own fault. Me & My sibiling treated our first junkers like Mercedes, because they were OURS. Noboby handed them to us. Most of our friends were getting into accidents or ruining their cars-not us. We were careful, because we understood how much money and responsibility it took to have and keep a car.
I think this is the only way to go with teenagers, but I am generally a mean mom. I taught my children not to lie, by lying to them(I told them we were going to McDonalds and drove by) so they could see how it felt 😉 I am also prone to show up at my sons class in a muumu(I bought specifically for the occassion), and curlers if he is acting out and being disruptive. I make sure he is hugged alot.. Apparently if he wanted attention in class; he will not get it. My kids are quite scared of my creative punishments.. Oh no life is not fair in the melle household…
; he will not get it. Correction: He will now get it….