Claymore sent us this link from the Las Vegas Review Journal which profiles the Oath Keepers;
Launched in March by Las Vegan Stewart Rhodes, Oath Keepers bills itself as a nonpartisan group of current and retired law enforcement and military personnel who vow to fulfill their oaths to the Constitution.
More specifically, the group’s members, which number in the thousands, pledge to disobey orders they deem unlawful, including directives to disarm the American people and to blockade American cities. By refusing the latter order, the Oath Keepers hope to prevent cities from becoming “giant concentration camps,” a scenario the 44-year-old Rhodes says he can envision happening in the coming years.
It’s a Cold War-era nightmare vision with a major twist: The occupying forces in this imagined future are American, not Soviet.
“The whole point of Oath Keepers is to stop a dictatorship from ever happening here,” Rhodes, a former Army paratrooper and Yale-trained lawyer, said in an interview with the Review-Journal. “My focus is on the guys with the guns, because they can’t do it without them.
I guess this is just Rhodes’ way of justifying the Department of Homeland Security’s report about right wing terrorists. My personal conflict is that the only person the Review Journal could find to comment against Oath Keepers is my old friend Mark Potok, of the Southern Poverty Law Center, who happens to see hate groups around every corner;
“I’m not accusing Stewart Rhodes or any member of his group of being Timothy McVeigh or a future Timothy McVeigh,” law center spokesman Mark Potok said. “But these kinds of conspiracy theories are what drive a small number of people to criminal violence. … What’s troubling about Oath Keepers is the idea that men and women armed and ordered to protect the public in this country are clearly being drawn into a world of false conspiracy theory.”
Yeah, whenever Potok says “I’m not accusing…” that’s exactly what he’s doing. Why else would he be writing in a column he calls “Hate Watch”? Stuart Rhodes is a former Ron Paul staffer, and we saw how quickly the Ron Paul movement petered out last year. They became an annoyance, but they’re certainly not dangerous – unless Stuart Rhodes doesn’t tone down the rhetoric.
On the other hand, SPLC, in perpetual search of hate groups doesn’t do the discourse any favors by amping up the hate talk.
According to the law center, militia groups are re-emerging in this country partly as a result of racial animosity toward Obama.
It’s the “cross-pollinating” of extremist groups — some racist, some not — that is of concern, Potok said. As evidence that the danger is real, he points to several recent murders committed by men with anti-government or racist views.
The U.S. Department of Homeland Security reached a similar conclusion in a report earlier this year about the rise of right-wing extremism. The report said the nation’s economic downturn and Obama’s race are “unique drivers for right-wing radicalization and recruitment.”
The homeland security report added that “disgruntled military veterans” might be vulnerable to recruitment by right-wing extremist groups.
That warning was enough to make Rhodes feel paranoid.
It would have been nice of the Review Journal to mention that the DHS report leaned heavily on the SPLC’s own “research”. So quoting the DHS report is the same as quoting Mark Potok – and includes his intellectually-vacant rhetoric.
So you see how I’m conflicted – two organizations who are equally distasteful engaged in equally harmful verbal warfare. I don’t know for whom to root – I guess the best I can hope for is mutual annihilation.
Oath Keepers are pledging not to carry out unlawful orders……how the hell does that escalate into violence?
By refusing the latter order, the Oath Keepers hope to prevent cities from becoming “giant concentration camps,”
Does this guy actually think the military, en-mass, would follow a stupid order like that?
I’m equally torn, but from a different perspective; I can honestly see some merit in what these Oath Keepers are trying to promote, which is to say they’re not going to be party to any sort of circumnavigation of the Constitution. My radar is also pegged by this Potok asshat from the SPLC, which would classify the Boy Scouts as a ‘hate group’ if they thought they could get away with it. I guess where the tires leave the road is this tidbit; Ronulans. Nothing says ‘UFO-Spock ear wearing-conspiracy theory-whackjob’ like being a Ron Paul supporter. I’m sorry, but it’s true.
I am done listening to ‘experts’ on racism/extremism. Anyone who claims to be an expert on the topic (SPLC, Al Sharpton, Charles Johnson, etc) usually isn’t. I now believe in the pornography definition for racism. I will know it when I see it. That Justice of the Peace in LA, yes, that racism. Anything else, meh.
SPLC is a joke. Why anyone would take anything they have to say seriously is beyond me. They use questionable data interspersed with their own bias in order to come to a pre-conceived conclusion based on nothing more that delusions and wishful thinking.
“Nothing says ‘UFO-Spock ear wearing-conspiracy theory-whackjob’ like being a Ron Paul supporter.”
Funny, but true. The sad thing is, some of them mean well…
Claymore said: Nothing says ‘UFO-Spock ear wearing-conspiracy theory-whackjob’ like being a Ron Paul supporter. I’m sorry, but it’s true.
There it is!
I come across that sort frequently. I find myself nodding along up until the WTF moment that seems inevitable.
It’s sad, really, and disturbing. It does make it complicated when we need to pull together.
The ‘Three Percenters’ are a similar group without an overtly direct Ron Paul connection.
Wait a minute I’m a UFO-Spock ear wearing geek who didn’t suport Ron Paul……..am I okay?
From Naval Aviator, Commander Jerry Wilson
We lived in California during the winters of 2007 and 2008. We became addicted to Fox News and watched O’Reilly and Hannity and Colmes every night.. When we got back home, we upgraded our cable to get Fox. I watched the Presidential campaign very closely. Initially because I thought the Democrats would nominate Hillary Clinton and then in astonishment when they chose an even more hard-left candidate. All of last year I told everyone I could that Obama was not a Democrat, he was a Marxist. He is far to the left of any European leader and even our far left party, the NDP.
I read Saul Alinsky when I was in University. I studied him and his writing carefully. When Bill Ayers and his idiot wife were bombing and killing people at random in the Weather Underground.. Weather Underground and the Black Panthers were closely allied. I read David Horowitz’s account of changing from a Marxist to a conservative after seeing that the government was afraid to prosecute members of the Panthers for murdering his personal assistant. He suddenly understood the evil that Marxism really was.
After the student radicals failed in creating a Marxist revolution in the United States by violent means, they embraced Alinsky. You would be wise to read “Rules for Radicals” because it outlines how Hillary and Obama planned to get into power, and what they intended to do when they got it.
Socialism is not the correct descriptor for what Obama and the Democrats are doing. They are going to be much more far reaching than anything Sweden has ever been able to do. Obama is following Alinsky’s plans, those set out in “Rules for Radicals” and his other writing. The Democrats are attempting to create one party rule in the U.S. and in achieving that, will create crisis after crisis by their own actions and use those crisis to nationalize the means of production in the U.S. You are in the middle of a communist revolution and few in the U.S. can actually see it for what it truly is.
The U.S. … is now on the path of financial destruction. The Constitution has been shredded and individual human rights are being trampled. In less than 8 months. Obama has used a recession to take over the two largest industries in the U.S. He will debase the Dollar and is on the road to creating an incredible energy shortage that will allow him and Congress to take over the energy industry..
But by and large I think that by the 2010 elections, the Democrats will have gerrymandered electoral districts to the point that it will be impossible for them to lose control of both houses of Congress. The incredible increase in the money supply is going to create Zimbabwe and Venezuela style inflation, and with it, controls on the currency and the amount of money that can be taken out of the country.
I love America , I cannot believe how the ignorance of the American public has created a situation whereby they are going to lose their Republic and slip into an age of repression and tyranny.
I may be nuts, but so far I have been 100% in my predictions of what Obama was going to do, because I merely had to look at “Rules for Radicals” to see what was coming next.
I read Glenn Beck’s book, “Common Sense” and in it re-read Thomas Paines pamphlet with the same name. I recommend the book.
When the storm finally hits (and it will), those of you who supported the Obama administration will be affected as well. It won’t just be us gun owners or Flat-Taxers, or Pro-Lifers that get hit. You’ll be right there next to us.
You all thought the Conservatives were nut cases. You know, all of us who believe in God, small government, the Second Amendment, etc. You thought you could just go back to sleep after the election was over. In your world, America will continue as before. You’ll still have the same rights, the same nice house, the same big screen television. After all, your high school football team won and the other team lost – go team! Even if you have bothered to look up from the daily grind since Nov 4th, you dismissed everything that has occurred as “politics as usual-the same old stuff”.
In the end, it’ll all be OK won’t it? Not this time.
There are a growing number of citizens in the US that are ready to fight to shut down the government’s grab of personal freedom, it’s blatant abuse of the constitution, and it’s attempt to replace the American way of life with socialism. You have to listen carefully to hear them, but they are there. I won’t start that fight, but when it goes down I will join it.
As for you, why, you’ll be shocked because you didn’t see it coming. And eventually you’ll be saddened when you see that we have truly lost the way of life with which you grew up. You’ll be saddened that your children and grandchildren live in a socialist, government-controlled gulag where their every movement from cradle to grave is tracked by the government. But most of all, you’ll be saddened by the death of friends and relatives who are brave enough to fight and die for something they believe in.
You know, McCain wasn’t much of a candidate. I’ll give you that. He was the lesser of two evils for most of us. I don’t blame you for not voting for him since, at the time, you didn’t know what we all know now. But at least John McCain was an American. He was a supporter of the American way of life and he understood that you can’t negotiate with terrorists. He understood and appreciated the sacrifice made by my father and other members of the Greatest Generation.
Mark my words friends. All across America groups are forming. They are forming out of anger and out of desperation at the thought of losing America . They’re not militia groups, terrorists as the Department of Homeland security would have you believe; they are Americans, loyal to the constitution. They are mothers and fathers and grandparents. They belong to groups like the Minutemen Civil Defense Corps, the Peaceful Resistance, the Constitution Party, the Young Conservatives, the 9/12 Project, and Grassfire. Right now they are fragmented, each focused on their own cause. But sometime in the next two years, our government is going to do something really stupid and these groups will come together. Watch for it, wait for it-get ready. It will happen.
When that event happens, whatever “it” is, our great country is going to plunge into chaos for a while. I pray to God that we make it through that time and emerge a stronger, smarter country.
Naval Aviator, Commander Jerry Wilson,
…well, clearly there are exceptions to every gross-over simplified-generalizations. 🙂
I, too, am conflicted by those Ronulans. They start out sounding all normal and nice, and you tend to agree with them until, as ponsdorf says there’s that WTF? moment and you have to have them back up and repeat that last bit. Then you know you’ve been had.
The one thing that I will give to “Oath Keepers” is that, unlike the current POTUS and those around him, the “Oath-Keepers” are serious about the oath they took, and don’t add an asterix or expiration date on it.
I can understand where they are coming from, but as long as the Ronulans are there, they are kryptonite to me. 🙂
Mike43s’ post is spot on…that is exactly how I feel…he just said it better than I ever could…
Sorry…that was me,forgot to change back.
I read about oathkeepers and liked what I read so I joined. Within a month that ‘WTF’ surfaced. In case they really didn’t know about the organization they were giving platform on their site, I posted the ties to communist organizations of that organization. I was attacked with ronulan zeal. Rhodes even graced the ‘discussion’ by saying I only wanted them to march in lockstep to what I wanted … which was a huge lie but fitting of a ‘ronulan’. While I enjoy their stated purpose of ‘no time limit on your oath’ … I figure I don’t need to belong to oathkeepers to uphold my oath. I can still look in the mirror any time of day.
Toothless Dawg: Do some links please.
Don’t doubt you for a second… just saves me the trouble of doing the digging. I do love irony.
If you read the Libertarian platform it’s pretty obvious.
As a libertarian (lower case) it’s offensive.
Ponsdorf,
As best as I can reconstruct, here is the chronology of events.
My leaving oathkeepers was related to the original thread by Eric T Orseske, IVAW. This is all that is left of that thread … http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2009/09/23/testimonial-of-eric-t-orseske-ivaw-has-been-deleted/
Eric Orseske posted his IVAW testimonial and picture of himself wearing an IVAW hat and t-shirt. As I remember (sorry I don’t have specific links to the thread since Rhodes finally agreed to remove the thread), I posted opposition to IVAW having a platform to further their agenda. It was refuted and some members sided with Orseske saying they “would stand with him anytime”. I posted links from IVAW website showing direct coalition with the Communist Party and CPUSA via United for Peace and Justice. IVAW sits as a member of the steering committee with that organization **search their site
http://www.unitedforpeace.org/article.php?list=type&type=27
for VVAW, IVAW, Communist, CPUSA, etc.
Members of another organization to which I belong also posted opposition to IVAW being given a platform on the oathkeepers site. I believe you know one of those men, a Navy Seal. It was upon his urging that Rhodes eventually deleted Orseske’s (IVAW) platform.
I did not take screen captures of any of this transaction but I believe that members at TAH were involved as well and could confirm the postings.
Just remembered this … you know of Adam Kokesh, IVAW. Apparently he is now running for congress %$#%$^&&&! Here is his website addy –
http://kokesh.blogspot.com/
Midway down that page is this endorsement by Ron Paul.
*** Monday, May 18, 2009
Ron Paul Weighs In
Dear Friends,
Adam Kokesh has been a tremendous supporter – of both me AND you! As a leader of Iraq Veterans Against the War, Adam has spent years traveling the country to spread our message of peace, a strong national defense and limited government. Adam has tremendous credibility because of his service in the United States Marine Corps and I have deep respect for his commitment to principle.
And now, Adam Kokesh needs our support.
Adam has formed an exploratory committee to run for Congress in his home state of New Mexico. Sending Adam Kokesh to Congress would be a tremendous victory for the Freedom Movement, and if we come together and stand behind him, he has a real chance to win.
This race will be difficult, but I know Adam has the energy and drive to be successful and pour every ounce of himself into this effort. I urge you to go to http://www.KokeshforCongress.com and support him in anyway you feel comfortable. Whether it is making a financial contribution, volunteering or getting more information share with your friends and family, Adam needs your support now so he can start down this long journey with momentum and a strong wind at his back.
We have a chance to help a real patriot and lover of liberty join me in Washington. Again, I hope you will help me support Adam Kokesh for Congress.
In Liberty,
***
FTA: Quote:
“As a leader of Iraq Veterans Against the War, Adam has spent years traveling the country to spread our message of peace, a strong national defense and limited government. Adam has tremendous credibility because of his service in the United States Marine Corps and I have deep respect for his commitment to principle.”
Are you shittin’ me?????????????
Here is another link of Kokesh urging active duty soldiers to desert.
http://www.ivaw.org/node/787
FTA: Quote:
“Again, we support you, the troops who serve their country with honorable intentions to provide for your national defense, but we oppose the policies of the US Government that do nothing to defend America. If any of you should decide to leave the Army while in Germany and throw down your arms, the people of Ansbach will support you and do our best to provide you with aid, comfort, and sanctuary. We wish to build a new relationship between the people of Germany and the people of America on the basis of peace, reconciliation, and understanding.”
I repeat, I am sorry for not taking screen captures of the posts or direct links. Some appear to have changed and some to have been deleted.
My leaving oathkeepers was related to the original thread by Eric T Orseske, IVAW. This all that is left of that thread … http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2009/09/23/testimonial-of-eric-t-orseske-ivaw-has-been-deleted/
Eric Orseske posted his IVAW testimonial and picture of him wearing an IVAW hat and t-shirt http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2009/09/19/army-veteran-and-ivaw-member-tells-his-story/ . As I remember (sorry I don’t have specific links to the thread since Rhodes finally agreed to remove the thread), I posted opposition to IVAW having a platform to further their agenda. It was refuted. I posted links from IVAW website showing direct coalition with the Communist Party and CPUSA via United for Peace and Justice. IVAW sits as a member of the steering committee with that organization *search their site http://www.unitedforpeace.org/article.php?list=type&type=27 for VVAW, IVAW, Communist, CPUSA, etc) . Members of another organization to which I belong also posted opposition to IVAW being given a platform on the oathkeepers site. I believe you know one of those men, a Navy Seal. It was upon his urging that Rhodes eventually deleted Orseske’s (IVAW) platform.
I did not take screen captures of any of this transaction but I believe that members at TAH were involved as well.
Just remembered this … you know of Adam Kokesh, IVAW. Apparently he is now running for congress %$#%$^&&&! Here is his website addy –
http://kokesh.blogspot.com/
Midway down that page is this endorsement by Ron Paul.
*** Monday, May 18, 2009
Ron Paul Weighs In
Dear Friends,
Adam Kokesh has been a tremendous supporter – of both me AND you! As a leader of Iraq Veterans Against the War, Adam has spent years traveling the country to spread our message of peace, a strong national defense and limited government. Adam has tremendous credibility because of his service in the United States Marine Corps and I have deep respect for his commitment to principle.
And now, Adam Kokesh needs our support.
Adam has formed an exploratory committee to run for Congress in his home state of New Mexico. Sending Adam Kokesh to Congress would be a tremendous victory for the Freedom Movement, and if we come together and stand behind him, he has a real chance to win.
This race will be difficult, but I know Adam has the energy and drive to be successful and pour every ounce of himself into this effort. I urge you to go to http://www.KokeshforCongress.com and support him in anyway you feel comfortable. Whether it is making a financial contribution, volunteering or getting more information share with your friends and family, Adam needs your support now so he can start down this long journey with momentum and a strong wind at his back.
We have a chance to help a real patriot and lover of liberty join me in Washington. Again, I hope you will help me support Adam Kokesh for Congress.
In Liberty,
***
FTA: Quote:
“As a leader of Iraq Veterans Against the War, Adam has spent years traveling the country to spread our message of peace, a strong national defense and limited government. Adam has tremendous credibility because of his service in the United States Marine Corps and I have deep respect for his commitment to principle.”
Are you shittin’ me?????????????
Here is another link of Kokesh urging active duty soldiers to desert.
http://www.ivaw.org/node/787
FTA: Quote:
“Again, we support you, the troops who serve their country with honorable intentions to provide for your national defense, but we oppose the policies of the US Government that do nothing to defend America. If any of you should decide to leave the Army while in Germany and throw down your arms, the people of Ansbach will support you and do our best to provide you with aid, comfort, and sanctuary. We wish to build a new relationship between the people of Germany and the people of America on the basis of peace, reconciliation, and understanding.”
I repeat, I am sorry for not taking screen captures of the posts or direct links. Some appear to have changed and some to have been deleted.
The SPLC are slimy frauds and conmen who spend all their time fearmongering, smearing people and raising money…but they have penetrated DHS, DoJ, FBI and numerous local LE agencies who in turn help spread the SPLC propaganda and give it credibility. Their “research” as was pointed out, turned up all through the DHS “Rightwing Extremism” report of April 7th. Attorney General Eric Holder speaks at a recent ADL banquet…and regurgitates SPLC propaganda. As you know, numerous MSM reporters tap into the SPLC website for handy quotes and references whenever the subject has some tangent with hate/racism. There are even some ex-presidents like Malaise The Magnificent who also see racists lurking behind every bush.
When the DHS Counterterrorism Tin Foil Hat Unit digs deep, they see that SPLC is right…there are skinheads, klansmen, and nativist rightwingers hiding behind every bush and weedpatch.
Our Hate Watch page documents the the slimy trail the SPLC slugs leave wherever they go. There’s always a lot of smoke pouring out of the Poverty Palace. Uncle Mo Dees has smeared as many Americans as Uncle Jo Stalin murdered dissidents. Uncle Mo is more a threat to traditional America than the remnants of the Soviet Union.
After I left the organization, Rhodes was persuaded to delete the thread and the links. I believe some from TAH were also part of the discussion, as were several from another organization I belong too. I neglected to take screen shots too, I know, my bad. I do remember two links I brought up though … re: Adam Kokesh, IVAW in Germany trying to convince active duty military to desert. The second was a letter by Ron Paul praising Adam Kokesh as a patriotic leader of IVAW and offering his endorsement to Kokesh.
http://www.ivaw.org/node/787
Toward the end of the letter he read is where he says: “If any of you should decide to leave the Army while in Germany and throw down your arms, the people of Ansbach will support you and do our best to provide you with aid, comfort, and sanctuary.”
http://kokesh.blogspot.com/
Midway down the page is the following endorsement by Ron Paul:
“Monday, May 18, 2009
Ron Paul Weighs In
Dear Friends,
Adam Kokesh has been a tremendous supporter – of both me AND you! As a leader of Iraq Veterans Against the War, Adam has spent years traveling the country to spread our message of peace, a strong national defense and limited government. Adam has tremendous credibility because of his service in the United States Marine Corps and I have deep respect for his commitment to principle.
And now, Adam Kokesh needs our support.
Adam has formed an exploratory committee to run for Congress in his home state of New Mexico. Sending Adam Kokesh to Congress would be a tremendous victory for the Freedom Movement, and if we come together and stand behind him, he has a real chance to win.
This race will be difficult, but I know Adam has the energy and drive to be successful and pour every ounce of himself into this effort. I urge you to go to http://www.KokeshforCongress.com and support him in anyway you feel comfortable. Whether it is making a financial contribution, volunteering or getting more information share with your friends and family, Adam needs your support now so he can start down this long journey with momentum and a strong wind at his back.
We have a chance to help a real patriot and lover of liberty join me in Washington. Again, I hope you will help me support Adam Kokesh for Congress.
In Liberty,
Ron Paul”
Everyone here already knows about the affiliations between IVAW and the CPUSA and that they sit on the steering committee for United for Peach and Justice (UFPJ)
Out
Whoops, that should read United for PEACE and Justice (UFPJ)
Durn keyboard!!!
I knew some of that. Thanks for the rest.
“Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas.”
Rhodes, Paul, Kokesh. A pretty clear link alright.
Stuart Rhodes is supposedly going to be on Chris Matthews tonight. I expect to see clips of Ron Paul/Alex Jones like crazy tomorrow on You Tube.