{"id":62220,"date":"2015-10-07T14:06:30","date_gmt":"2015-10-07T18:06:30","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/valorguardians.com\/blog\/?p=62220"},"modified":"2015-10-07T19:48:15","modified_gmt":"2015-10-07T23:48:15","slug":"about-those-i-escaped-from-the-vcnva-claims","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.azuse.cloud\/?p=62220","title":{"rendered":"About Those “I Escaped from the VC\/NVA” Claims"},"content":{"rendered":"

One of the common \u2013 and immensely frustrating \u2013 claims by military fakes is falsely claiming to have been held as a POW in Vietnam or elsewhere in Southeast Asia. \u00a0It\u2019s also one of the easier false military claims\u00a0to disprove quickly.\u00a0 DPAA maintains a public list of POWs\u00a0who returned from captivity during or at the end of the Vietnam War<\/a><\/em>.<\/p>\n

However, many individuals making a “Vietnam POW” aren’t content to merely claim they were a POW. \u00a0Many have to claim to have been in a \u201ctiger cage\u201d temporarily, or to have later somehow escaped from enemy custody – or both. \u00a0Hell, Jonn posted an article about one such fake claim<\/a>\u00a0<\/em>earlier today.<\/p>\n

Well, it turns out this kind of claim is also laughably easy to disprove. Turns out that DPAA maintains a second list – specifically, a list of those who successfully escaped enemy captivity during the Vietnam War.<\/p>\n

This latter claim (to have escaped from being held as a POW in Southeast Asia during the Vietnam Conflict) is not only laughably easy to verify or disprove, it’s also is one\u00a0that\u2019s virtually guaranteed to be bullsh!t.\u00a0 Here\u2019s why: \u00a0Only a total of 37 individuals<\/span> were captured in SEA and later escaped and returned alive to US control.<\/p>\n

That\u2019s right \u2013 thirty-freaking-seven<\/em>. \u00a0Total.<\/p>\n

I haven\u2019t counted. \u00a0But I\u2019m pretty sure Jonn\u2019s busted more than that many here at TAH alone for\u00a0falsely claiming to have been \u201cVietnam POWs\u201d who “escaped from Charlie”.<\/p>\n

The point? \u00a0Such individuals are incredibly rare. \u00a0They amount to a bit over 5% of all Vietnam POWs who returned alive – and according to DPAA, there were only a total 721 total POWs that returned alive, including civilians held captive. \u00a0(37 who escaped plus 684 who were released during or after the war). \u00a0Since approximately 3.1 million people served in the military in SEA during the war and only 32 of the escapees were military personnel, that means you’re literally talking about one Vietnam vet in about 97,000.<\/p>\n

Rare? \u00a0You betcha. \u00a0Especially since a number\u00a0of those\u00a0bona fide<\/em> escapees are no longer alive.<\/p>\n

A few\u00a0other interesting points about the successful escapees.<\/p>\n

    \n
  1. Five of these individuals were civilians.<\/li>\n
  2. Two were women (both were civilians). \u00a0They were both captured and escaped during the somewhat chaotic partial collapse of South Vietnam during\u00a0March, 1975.<\/li>\n
  3. Among the 32 military personnel who were taken prisoner in SEA and who later successfully escaped captivity, 19 were Army; 10 were Marines; 2 were Navy; and 1 was Air Force.<\/li>\n
  4. With two exceptions, all successful escapees appear to have been taken prisoner and held in South Vietnam. The two exceptions were the two Navy personnel who later escaped; they were captured and held in Laos.<\/li>\n
  5. No Navy SEALs were taken POW in Vietnam and later escaped.<\/li>\n
  6. The vast majority (27, or 75%) of escapees escaped within a month of being captured. Only 4 were held longer than 2 months. \u00a0Only two escaped after being\u00a0held longer than 6 months: \u00a0SFC Isaac Camacho, 5th Special Forces Group, US Army – captured on 24 November 1963 and escaped\/returned\u00a0to US custody almost 19 months later<\/em>, on 13 July 1965; and 1LT James Nicholas Rowe, captured on 29 October 1963 and escaped\/returned to US custody over 5 years later<\/span><\/em>, on 31 December 1968.<\/li>\n
  7. Three of the individuals who escaped captivity were both captured and escaped captivity the same day; another three were captured one day and escaped the next. If someone\u2019s claiming they aren\u2019t on the POW list because \u201cthey weren\u2019t held long enough\u201d, that\u2019s bullsh!t.\u00a0 There is NO \u201cminimum time required\u201d before DoD considers someone a POW.<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n

    Still, we keep seeing this kind of bogus claim.\u00a0 So, in the interest of being a ready reference, here is the complete list of those individuals who DPAA recognizes as being successful escapees from enemy captivity during the Vietnam War.<\/p>\n

     <\/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n
    Branch of Service<\/strong><\/td>\n\u00a0<\/strong>Location of Incident<\/strong><\/td>\n\u00a0<\/strong>Name<\/strong><\/td>\n\u00a0<\/strong>Rank<\/strong><\/td>\nDate Captured<\/strong><\/td>\n\u00a0<\/strong>Date of Return<\/strong><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    USA<\/td>\nS. Vietnam<\/td>\nAIKEN, Larry Delarnard<\/td>\nE4<\/td>\n1969\/05\/13<\/td>\n1969\/07\/10<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    USA<\/td>\nS. Vietnam<\/td>\nANDERSON, Roger Dale<\/td>\nE2<\/td>\n1968\/01\/03<\/td>\n1968\/01\/12<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    USA<\/td>\nS. Vietnam<\/td>\nBABCOCK, William H. Jr.<\/td>\nO2*<\/td>\n1968\/01\/31<\/td>\n1968\/01\/31*<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    USA<\/td>\nS. Vietnam<\/td>\nBRASWELL, Donald Robert<\/td>\nE4<\/td>\n1967\/08\/23<\/td>\n1967\/08\/24<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    USA<\/td>\nS. Vietnam<\/td>\nBREWER,\u00a0Lee<\/td>\nE5<\/td>\n1968\/01\/07<\/td>\n1968\/01\/08<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    USA<\/td>\nS. Vietnam<\/td>\nCAMACHO, Issac<\/td>\nE7<\/td>\n1963\/11\/24<\/td>\n1965\/07\/13<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    USN<\/td>\nLaos<\/td>\nDENGLER, Dieter<\/td>\nO2<\/td>\n1966\/02\/01<\/td>\n1966\/07\/20<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    USA<\/td>\nS. Vietnam<\/td>\nDIERLING, Edward\u00a0A.<\/td>\nE5<\/td>\n1968\/02\/01<\/td>\n1968\/02\/23<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    CIVILIAN<\/td>\nS. Vietnam<\/td>\nDODD,\u00a0Joe Lee<\/td>\nCiv<\/td>\n1965\/10\/10<\/td>\n1965\/10\/25<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    USMC<\/td>\nS. Vietnam<\/td>\nDODSON, James<\/td>\nE5<\/td>\n1966\/05\/06<\/td>\n1966\/06\/20<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    USMC<\/td>\nS. Vietnam<\/td>\nECKES, Walter W.<\/td>\nE3<\/td>\n1966\/05\/10<\/td>\n1966\/06\/20<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    USA<\/td>\nS. Vietnam<\/td>\nFANN, Jerry\u00a0L.<\/td>\nE3<\/td>\n1967\/03\/21<\/td>\n1967\/03\/21<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    USA<\/td>\nS. Vietnam<\/td>\nGRAENING, Bruce A.<\/td>\nE3<\/td>\n1967\/03\/09<\/td>\n1967\/03\/18<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    USA<\/td>\nS. Vietnam<\/td>\nGUFFEY, Jerry<\/td>\nE4<\/td>\n1969\/03\/04<\/td>\n1969\/03\/04<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    USMC<\/td>\nS. Vietnam<\/td>\nHAMILTON, Walter D.<\/td>\nE2<\/td>\n1965\/10\/18<\/td>\n1965\/10\/29<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    USA<\/td>\nS. Vietnam<\/td>\nHATCH, Paul G.<\/td>\nE3<\/td>\n1969\/08\/24<\/td>\n1969\/08\/25<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    USA<\/td>\nS. Vietnam<\/td>\nHAYHURST, Robert\u00a0A.<\/td>\nE5<\/td>\n1968\/02\/01<\/td>\n1968\/02\/23<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    USA<\/td>\nS. Vietnam<\/td>\nHOLT, Dewey Thomas<\/td>\nE4<\/td>\n1967\/08\/23<\/td>\n1967\/08\/24<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    CIVILIAN<\/td>\nS. Vietnam<\/td>\nHUDSON, Henry\u00a0M,<\/td>\nCiv<\/td>\n1965\/12\/20<\/td>\n1965\/12\/21<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    USMC<\/td>\nS. Vietnam<\/td>\nIODICE, Frank C.<\/td>\nE4<\/td>\n1968\/05\/30<\/td>\n1968\/06\/01<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    CIVILIAN<\/td>\nS. Vietnam<\/td>\nJONES, Edwin D.<\/td>\nCiv<\/td>\n1965\/12\/20<\/td>\n1965\/12\/21<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    USA<\/td>\nS. Vietnam<\/td>\nKING, Everett Melbourne Jr.<\/td>\nE4<\/td>\n1968\/02\/01<\/td>\n1968\/02\/08<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    USN<\/td>\nLaos<\/td>\nKLUSMANN, Charles F.<\/td>\nO3<\/td>\n1964\/06\/06<\/td>\n1964\/08\/31<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    USA<\/td>\nS. Vietnam<\/td>\nMARTIN, Donald\u00a0Eugene<\/td>\nE5<\/td>\n1968\/03\/02<\/td>\n1968\/04\/14<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    USMC<\/td>\nS. Vietnam<\/td>\nNELSON, Steven N.<\/td>\nE3<\/td>\n1968\/01\/07<\/td>\n1968\/01\/21<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    USMC<\/td>\nS. Vietnam<\/td>\nNORTH, Joseph\u00a0Jr.<\/td>\nE2<\/td>\n1965\/10\/18<\/td>\n1965\/10\/29<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    USAF<\/td>\nS. Vietnam<\/td>\nPAGE, Jasper N.<\/td>\nE6<\/td>\n1965\/10\/30<\/td>\n1965\/11\/04<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    USMC<\/td>\nS. Vietnam<\/td>\nPOTTER, Albert J.<\/td>\nE5<\/td>\n1968\/05\/30<\/td>\n1968\/06\/01<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    USMC<\/td>\nS. Vietnam<\/td>\nRISNER, Richard F.<\/td>\nO4<\/td>\n1968\/08\/20<\/td>\n1968\/08\/22<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    USMC<\/td>\nS. Vietnam<\/td>\nROHA, Michael\u00a0R.<\/td>\nE1<\/td>\n1968\/01\/07<\/td>\n1968\/01\/21<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    USA<\/td>\nS. Vietnam<\/td>\nROWE, James\u00a0Nicholas<\/td>\nO2<\/td>\n1963\/10\/29<\/td>\n1968\/12\/31<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    CIVILIAN<\/td>\nS. Vietnam<\/td>\nSMITH, Linda<\/td>\nCiv<\/td>\n1975\/03\/10<\/td>\n1975\/03\/27<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    CIVILIAN<\/td>\nS. Vietnam<\/td>\nSMITH, Michelle\u00a0L.<\/td>\nCiv<\/td>\n1975\/03\/10<\/td>\n1975\/03\/27<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    USMC<\/td>\nS. Vietnam<\/td>\nTALLAFERRO, William P.<\/td>\nE4<\/td>\n1968\/02\/06<\/td>\n1968\/02\/13<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    USA<\/td>\nS. Vietnam<\/td>\nTAYLOR, William B.<\/td>\nE5<\/td>\n1968\/03\/20<\/td>\n1968\/05\/06<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    USA<\/td>\nS. Vietnam<\/td>\nVANPUTTEN, Thomas<\/td>\nE4<\/td>\n1968\/02\/11<\/td>\n1969\/04\/17<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    USA<\/td>\nS. Vietnam<\/td>\nWRIGHT, Buddy<\/td>\nE5<\/td>\n1968\/09\/22<\/td>\n1968\/10\/06<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/tbody>\n<\/table>\n

    Note<\/u>:\u00a0 for unknown reasons, the DPAA list does not give a rank or date of escape for Babcock.\u00a0 However, the Military Times Hall of Valor database<\/a> <\/u>lists his rank when captured as 1LT, and indicates he escaped from enemy custody\/was rescued the same day.\u00a0 Other Internet sources also give\u00a0Babcock\u2019s \u00a0rank as 1LT at time of capture; those sources further indicate he was captured and escaped\/was rescued the same day.\u00a0 I have thus entered this data in the table above.<\/em><\/p>\n

     <\/p>\n

    That\u2019s the entire DoD-recognized escapee list.\u00a0 It may be verified directly from DPAA by following this link<\/a><\/em>. \u00a0All other Vietnam War POWs who returned alive did so after being\u00a0released during or after the end of the war.<\/p>\n

    If someone\u2019s making a \u201cVietnam POW\u201d claim and isn\u2019t on that list, well, personally I\u2019d not believe a word they said. \u00a0And I’d probably also leave the area immediately – before I lost my temper and did something stupid.<\/p>\n

     <\/p>\n

    (A link to this article has been added to the “Military Records” button on the TAH site banner.)<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

    One of the common \u2013 and immensely frustrating \u2013 claims by military fakes is falsely claiming … About Those “I Escaped from the VC\/NVA” Claims<\/span>Read more<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":623,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[10,84,118],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-62220","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-historical","category-military-issues","category-veterans-issues"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.azuse.cloud\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/62220","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.azuse.cloud\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.azuse.cloud\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.azuse.cloud\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/623"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.azuse.cloud\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=62220"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.azuse.cloud\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/62220\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.azuse.cloud\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=62220"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.azuse.cloud\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=62220"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.azuse.cloud\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=62220"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}