ROS sent us this link, and I read the article yesterday, but I was hesitant to comment, because anything I might say can be construed as ungrateful and disrespectful. But anyway, Michelle Obama interviewed with Stars & Stripes;
“Still most Americans don’t have a connection to the military community,” she said during an interview with Stars and Stripes on Tuesday. “This is a group of individuals who give so much and don’t want to fall into the shadows. They want to know they live in a country that cares about what they do.”
So her solution is to ask Americans to volunteer to express “broader support from the entire country is needed to reach out to military families and offer them the respect they deserve”. My first reaction is not meant to be ungrateful, but, if you haven’t been moved to do these things in the last ten years, the troops really don’t need someone who wants to mouth the words and go through the motions because Michelle Obama told you to.
Even IVAW complained that Americans were generally ignoring the troops and the war. It’s pretty much too late to pretend you care because it’s the next popular thing to do with your “Organizing for America” friends.
When the wars began, I took donated pogie bait to the guys at Walter Reed, brought wives to my apartment so they could cook homemade meals for their husbands, smuggled them beer, contacted their representatives in Congress – before there was a better-organized effort by the new organizations which have sprung up. When they started doing a better job than I was doing, I got out of the way.
And that’s the best thing that these newly converted supporters of the troops can do – send your money, but stay out of the way. Or enlist.
‘ungrateful and disrespectful”
You mean like this?
Jonn:
Since Stolen Valor is “Free Speech”, a mandate by the Worst Lady could be seen as Law. And then- People will “appear” to honor and appreciate the troops. As my UK buddy might say: “Bugger off Bitch”.
Yes, if they don’t feel it now, seeming to have had an awakening isn’t going to go very far. My support of the troops began in something like 1945, when I had a “uniform” just like my fathers. And it has not wavered since.
HOOAH!!!!
Gee I wonder why there is such a disconnect, maybe it has something to do with her and her ilk’s constant demonizing of all that is military since the 60s. Maybe that might have something to do with the development of a warrior class in today’s America and the insular feelings that come with that establishment. Bah, go back to DC, we’ll take care of our own as we have always done.
And picking up trash in the neighborhood park “in honor of military service members” doesn’t do any for the service members…
If you want to do something, join an organization like Soldiers’ Angels, or adopt a service member through any number of organizations that do that (SA, AnySoldier.com, AdoptAPlatoon.com). Volunteer your time at a local VA facility, or bring goodies to put out in the waiting rooms. Contact your local Legion or VFW post to see how you can help…
In my opinion those who are supporting the deployed troops are great and there should be more of it but if you want the military community to feel it then how about addressing military preference (real not some nebulous criteria) and benefits so that when these guys get home or have already served they know theyre appreciated with a few extras and not just kicked into the system with a fake small and a ‘we support the troops’ tshirt.
Once again the Obama’s are using the troops to try and up their poll numbers.
Where was her support for the troops during the Ft. Hood shootings? What about when the Teleprompter in Chief snubbed the Medal of Honor ball?
How often have they actually come out and talked about the fact that we are fighting in a war and we need to support them and kill the damn enemy?
Michelle and her embarrassment of a husband can go pound sand for all I care.
John, there is no way to disrespect me!chelle. She has no redeeming qualities and her words and actions are despicable. zero and his beard are a perfect match. Ugly inside and out.
I think the fundamental disconnect between the military and the civilian community is much deeper than partisan politics. The same mentality that allows people on the left to paint the military as war criminals allows people on the right to score BS deferments and then order troops to war. It’s the idea that military service is something “other people” do. Not their family. Not their kids. The Marines? Hell no, you’re going to college and getting a “good” job.
The same goes for civic duty itself, the idea of citizenship as a responsibility, not just a gateway to entitlement. Americans, in general, don’t share a sense of investment into the system this nation has built.
If the First Lady had said this within a forum that impacted people who normally don’t think about the military, I might have given pause to the idea that she actually cares, albeit rather obliquely. Instead, she says this in an interview with Stars and Stripes; which indicates she’s simply playing to her audience, yet again.
Sometimes when I read of the ways military are treated disrespectfully (never mind any disconnect) on or near military bases, it makes me more mad than those who may not pay attention to the military.
I read here on this site merchants, vendors, and other unscrupulous people who prey on the military or try to rip them off, etc. These predators deserve more scorn IMO.
I think most in the military do what they do without wanting any undue attention on themselves or their service, because it’s not about the public attention or adulation.
1) Well, with you guys abviously she’s damned if she does, and damned if she doesn’t.
2) The longer we have a strictly volunteer, “professional” military, the greater the disconnect will grow.
I think she looks like Han Solo’s sidekick…how’s that for disrespectful.
The Marines? Hell no, you’re going to college and getting a “good” job.
I got the same thing from my friends in high school when I told them I was joining the Navy. These days I earn more than most of them and any college loans I had have been paid off decades ago.
The longer we have a strictly volunteer, “professional” military, the greater the disconnect will grow.
Ah, old “Swoop-and-Poop” makes his monthly appearance from the “home”. Yo, Joe–the reason there’s a “disconnect” as you so pitifully put it is because your fellow liberal douchenozzle travellers are perpetuating outdated stereotypes of military members that weren’t that true to start. I got the same bullshit doublespeak from my (thankfully) EX-Congresscritter, Carol Che-Porter, she of the, “I love veterans because of my Vietnam-ERA husband who did two years at Fitzsimmons” then turned around and pissed on funding them and veterans every chance she got. Nevermind she supposedly was pushing for a VA hospital in NH, because we’re the only state without one, nevermind the number of beds in VA hospitals available in Boston, Portland, and White River, VT–all of which are less than a 90-minute drive from anywhere in NH.
Joe:
I’ll start with #2. We’ve already ground that wheat into flour.
#1. Her platform is too important to use lightly. When she gets up in a meeting of heart surgeons and says it’s important to control cholesterol, she’s wasting air. If she gets up in a Weight Watcher’s meeting and says the same thing…NOW she’s making a contribution. See the difference?
#11 Joe,
1) Yep. And?
2) Nope. There are millions more veterans, their family members, and friends of veterans that live in America and throughout the world. To be disconnected is to have a Junker class of martial brahmins – an elite society of military priests – which is anti-thetical to the American experience.
The FLOTUS’s efforts are cute, the way a land-mine is cute hidden under a flower patch. She’s attempting to raise support for her husband’s disasterous military adventurism in Libya through the means of CCC-for-free. That’s not just trite, it’s damned insulting. May as well get the unemployed cleaning the park at the point of bayonets.
Miss Ladybug nails it: one supports the troops personally, and through tested organizations that personally support the troops through positive, meaningful action.
Sadly, I have to admit that I was once one of the disconnected. Since dating a Marine from Kanehoe Bay a couple years ago, I’ve wanted to learn more, see more, and know more. I have adopted soldiers throgh SA and send care packages and make donations. I ride with the Patriot Guard and honor both our fallen and returning. Yet I still feel like there’s more I can do. I take every opportunity to share with my friends the things that can be done. The last thing I want to be is ungrateful!
Yeah, see Joe wants to bring back the draft, even though he opposed selective service when he was draft age. Now that he’s too old to serve, he thinks everyone else should serve in the military. By force if necessary. We’ve had this discussion in emails.
#17: Jonn,
Perhaps I’m going through a dense patch, but I fail to see how an army of conscripts is any more connected than an army of volunteers.
Conscripts may broaden the demographic, but history (and not just American history) shows us, the demographics of the draftees devolve to the poorest – those that couldn’t get into college, buy a deferment, or rent a replacement.
What distinguishes a conscript army from a volunteer army is Free Will. The lack of choice crushes the will and the excellence derived therefrom.
DaveO: Don’t tell me…tell Joe.
#11, part 2, Joe:
Would you please address the question of how a conscript army is more connected to society than a volunteer army? My arguments are in Post #18.
Okay… Everybody just slow down a bit. Let us all be respe…
Nah, as a ‘Nam vet this discussion just turns my geezer heart to mush.
Walk the walk and save the talk. We have one of Jonn’s hippies in the WH. Anyone who even considers this a serious effort should see a therapist.
BTW, SA has 1515 service members on the waiting list. That means about a month long wait to be adopted for someone who signs up today for support. All it takes is one letter a week and one care package a month. I just got a new adoptee yesterday, to replace the one I found out last week has a mail stop.
Forgot the link….Oops!
Miss Ladybug #22: There it is!
So The President’s wife says that people don’t connect to the military? It’s kind of hard for her and her kind to connect with anything, especially reality.
They live in this alternate-reality where there is an endless supply of paper to print money, and and endless stream of “rich folk” to squeeze more and more from.
I wish she would just STFU and STFD and eat her damned waffle. Or barbecue. Whatever it is she’s wolfing down while scolding everyone else not to eat it.
@ Dave O
A conscript Army is more connected to the military than an all volunteer Army because a society that lives in a conscript Army situation is going to pay more attention to what the military is sent to do because they could one day be affected by it. All volunteer, there is no reason for people to pay attention because they know they aren’t going to join so let somebody else do it.
Conscript Army is more connected to the people I meant to say.
The American left’s new found love affair with conscription is simply hilarious. The left doesn’t want a draft, they want the threat of a draft. To them the draft isn’t something THEY would do. None of THEM would gladly plop their ass down in that barber’s chair and stand in front of a drill instructor. They just want to use the specter of the draft as a weapon in the arsenal of pacifism. I mean that’s all good, just own it and blowing smoke up people’s asses.
Obamagirl has a point. Just think of all the protests that would be going on over Libya, our continued war in Iraq, and the continued war in the Stan if there was a draft. If they were drafting every protected punk in college would be beating drums and burning draft cards. Gee…why is that Deja Vu all over again. Jonn’s gotta point…now that Joe’s too old…he’s all for someone else going. Gee…why is that Deja Vu all over again. Another President ran on ending the wars….Gee…why is that Deja Vu all over again. Freedom to the protectors has a taste the protected can never taste. Gee…why is that Deja Vu all over again.
Way to go Obamagirl…a brain cell has connected…sort of.
Honor and Courage
#26, You say a conscripted Army is more connected tot he people? You should go and ask the Germans how connected they are to the conscripted Army they have. They have a core of professionals but they are filled out with 18 month draftees, who mostly go into the less desirable fields.
re: #30
In all fairness Germany is a terrible example. The cultural wounds made by the second World War have left terrible and disfiguring scars on the German people’s view of the military and much else. Better examples would be Egypt or Israel where the military is largely the most trusted institution in those countries. Switzerland is another healthy example of functional western nation with a well integrated military culture. Even Turkey with all its institutional baggage.
Still, none of those nations posses the cultural subtleties or geopolitical position of the United States or the capabilities or mission set of its military so contemporary comparisons are severely lacking, in the end.
Far be it from either her or her husband to lead by example by even, say, going to a USO welcome for returning troops.
I seem to recall someone else doing that, though……
So the First Lady is getting around to this after over 2 years with hubby as President. Oh yea, he’s already started his campaigning for 2012. Never mind.
YatYas:
Give the “Worst Lady” a break. It has taken her two years to get herself over her statement of “For the first time in my life I am proud to be an American.” Now that she is accustomed to that litany, she can pretend to have a concern for the troops.
Scrue the Beyotch.
Newsflash, Me-shell…most of the military folks you preach to aren’t buying your shit. Most of them had to pass this little thing called the ASVAB, which means most of them can think for themselves without being given the bogeyman speech to drive them to the polls.
Ah, fuck it–who cares. Democrat Secretaries of State and election officials will find as many reasons as they can to fuck over military voters anyway. They see the writing on the wall.
But Michelle–so do we.
Southern Class:
I’m hoping that come Jan 2013, the “Worst Lady” will no longer be proud to be an American.
#26 ObamaGirl2012,
Thank you! As I understand your argument, membership in the Army, based upon equal drawing from all demographics, requires the citizens to be singly and plurally concerned with the employment of those conscripts. Am I correct in re-stating your argument?
If so, please permit me to disagree on two levels: historical and philosophical.
Historically, armies raised by the levee’ en masse were raised on the decision of the ruler(s) for the purpose of applying more raw power in battle than the other side. Examples of this are the levies of the French, during the Terror, to fight off the professional armies of Prussia, Britain, and the various nation-states. The use of massed formations of conscripts was proven, in the modern era, at the Battle of Valmy, when (later) Marshal of France Kellerman used what he considered patriotic, zealous mobs to overwhelm Prussian gunners.
Another example, and closer to our time is the use of conscripts by the Soviet Union during WWII. Whether the battle kept Leningrad or Moscow from falling, or destroyed a Nazi army at Stalingrad, massed mobs of conscripts were ruthlessly thrown into battle to save the Soviet Union.
Historically, conscripts are the same as “Other Peoples’ Money.” By that I mean if, for example, Jonn Lilyea and I are discussing how to best spend NHSparky’s money, we’re going to be extremely generous toward ourselves since we bear no true cost. Sparky, however, will biting nails and spitting Gadsden flags. Conscripts are expended in the same way. Think of Gettysburg: both sides levied soldiers en masse, and their generals expended them en masse.
Society is further disconnected in having a conscript army by the use of exceptions. College deferments, medical or sexual identification disqualifications, conscientious objection – these are exceptions that exclude members/ classes/groups of society from equal exposure to risk, reward and consequences of conscript combat. For those families that feel service is an adornment, or a resume-filler, soft jobs can be found. Where there is exception, there is disconnect.
Former Vice President Gore served in Viet Nam, without dishonor. The late Senator Ted Kennedy served as an undistinguished private. Both of these men were volunteers. Their fathers may have forced them, but the State did not.
Historically, conscription divides society on several levels, where the results of division are not to the benefit of society or the nation.
Philosophically, conscription is the use of raw coercive power to force males into abject servitude. Military law is harsher, a la Eddie Slovik, than in a volunteer army because to maintain discipline on the scale necessary for conscript armies. Draftees get few choices. If one is a smart draftee, one becomes a junior sergeant or corporal or the Commander’s aide. Like a mule in the traces, a conscript is forced to conform, to obey, and to perform even at the cost of his life.
Use of the State’s coercive power divides society, and weakens it. To prevent weakening, society is distracted: propaganda, sports, whatever to take society’s mind from the issue. Nations, including the US of A, are not above force enforcing the draft on the people. An example is the draft riots in NYC popularized by the movie “The Gangs of New York.” Society pities the conscripts
The volunteer army has one strength: Free Will. That moral strength is greater than any number of battalions. Being a joe is no longer a parent’s greatest shame. No stigma is attached socially, financially, or employment-ways to a person who chose civilian life over military service. Paying joes what is owed, what they’ve earned is a societal debt, freely accepted. Volunteerism unites because Free Will does not take into account caste, income, or colour. Society respects a volunteer force.
ObamaGirl2012, again – thank you for responding. Back to you.
I’m all for a draft. I grew up in an affluent suburb where many kids went off to top schools and had a head start on everyone else. They don’t do anything to make America better, all they care about is making themselves richer. It’s the poor and middle class who go do all the fighting while these spoiled brats sit around and collect the benefits being an American provides, while performing none of the sacrifice.
Are you serious, CW? I was in recruiting. We track that kind of thing.
In fact, it’s more likely for an enlistee to come from a family with an income in the top quintile as opposed to the bottom quintile. The average recruit is solidly middle-class, to be sure, but the lie that “the rich” don’t enlist is crap.
Maybe you ought to go find those kids who all went to college and find out how many of them GRADUATED. Oh, BTW–it’s MORE likely for a veteran to be a college graduate than their civilian counterpart.
And no, a draft wouldn’t even out the demographic in the military.
The only Americans disconnected with the military are the ultra left liberals. Many of the more moderate Democrats I know do support the military, or have direct experience/contact with the military. So FLOTUS can SUCKUS!
I really hope Obama wins in 2012, because he will truly fix this problem. To all the haters here your little Ron Paul, and Sean Hannity puppets will not win! OBAMA 2012!
You can always tell the noobie trolls with their, “Ron Paul can’t win” bullshit. Uh, OG–we know. Find us a regular poster who has been or ever was a Ronulan. Obumbles can’t fix shit–we’ve seen that so far. And if you think I’m wrong, show me one thing that he’s had his dickskinners in over the past two years which has improved after he and his idiots have fucked with it?
Obama Girl:
After reading your comments here for the past few weeks; I am of the opinion that you are either an elementary school student, or have not developed intellectually since then. Obumbler IS the problem.
Southern Class:
After reading you’re comments I am convinced you’re a dumb redneck who needs somebody to read you my comments. Have fun at your klan meeting tonight.
“…dumb redneck…” “…klan meeting…”
Cheap shot, OG. Just because his handle is Southern Class? If you want to talk politics, we can do that; if you want to degrade to bigotry, we can do that, too.
I promise that you won’t like it.
The top quintile? Bullshit. 20% is a pretty large segment of the population and the differences in terms of wealth and income between the someone just breaking the top 20 and someone who’s on the cusp of the top 5 would be enormously different.
I went to High School in one the top ten public school systems in the country. The town I’m from consistently places in the top 50 highest income places in the US with a population greater than 1000. I graduated in a class of about 275, and I was the only enlistee. The class before mine had similar figures.
The fact of the matter is that the rich do not do the fighting for this country. I’m sure people from the Upper Middle Class enlist with greater frequency than those from the absolute bottom, but those are not the Rich. A multi-millionare’s kid is going to be far less likely to sign up than a kid living in a single parent household with an income of around 40K.
Pinto–whatdja expect from a girl that rates maybe a 4 out of 10, tops, and that’s on the Iraq scale?
I will admit to thinking it was a wasted effort, Sparky.
differences in terms of wealth and income between the someone just breaking the top 20 and someone who’s on the cusp of the top 5 would be enormously different.
Not nearly as much as you might think:
2008:
Top 5 percent AGI: $159,619
Top 10 percent AGI: $113,799
Top 25 percent AGI: $67,280
(source: IRS)
So figure just for the hell of it the top 20 percent falls about $80K. Not a huge spread.
And again, CW–nobody said a multi-millionaire’s kid would be more willing or likely to sign up than a kid who’s father is middle-class. What I DID say, and what facts have borne out, is that the “wealthy” are more likely to enlist than the poor or those in urban areas.
That’s not just conjecture–that’s FACT.
How would you know what the Iraq scale is sparky when you have never been there?